I often see people say that in Asatru, "Hell"(or similar is reserved for those who need to go there, like murderers or oath breakers.
That said, if you get married "in the til death" sense and later get divorced, would that make you an oath breaker or no?
No offense intended, I am merely curious.
Not all of Hel is reserved for murderers and oath breakers, some of it is just a place of rest for the dead. Niflheim is believed to be one of the places of punishment for living a dishonorable life.
As for your question, if it's for good reason such as abuse or anything like that then I don't think it would be considered oath breaking. From my understanding, the most important oaths are those you make with family and the gods or goddesses, it is those in particular that you need to do everything in your power to keep. I'm eclectic pagan though, so maybe someone who strictly follows Asatru could explain it a little better.
"I often see people say that in Asatru, "Hell"(or similar is reserved for those who need to go there, like murderers or oath breakers."
You are referring to Nastrond, that is supposedly where oath breakers, murderers and philanderers go where Nidhogg gnaws on their corpses.
"That said, if you get married "in the til death" sense and later get divorced, would that make you an oath breaker or no?
No offense intended, I am merely curious"
Depends on who you talk to.
"But my faith tells me nothing good can happen to those who break their solemn vows."
You are thinking of Nastrond which is a realm of Hel but not all of it.
In the til death is not an original concept on pagans from I can gather. Divorce was a valid choice among both the Celtic and the Norse and the Germanic, often times women have the power to proclaim it so. Marriage was a social contact, not a love match. It was about continuing the bloodlines and heritage, not love for all time. Love matches are very recent, picking up popularity in Victorian times. Even among Christianity it was a social contract to continue family. It was simply a life long one.
Well, if it was "until death do us part," I suppose technically it would make you an oath breaker. The thing is though that divorce was legal under ancient Icelandic and Anglo-Saxon laws, so I am not sure what they would have thought of including that in ones vows. If one has, I am sure that a divorce would not constitute breaking ones vows if both are agreed to it (and that may be the key, both are agreed to it) as that would basically constitute taking a new oath that over rides the old one. One has to remember, oaths were and are basically contracts and operate on the same principles. If two people agree to terminate a contract, nothing is really thought of it. The same should be true of oaths. The only time it is a sticky situation is when one is not agreeable, or it is an oath to the Gods to do something, then you are stuck.
Hel is the world of the dead in Scandinavia lore, N?strand is the great and dreadful hall where murderers and oath-breakers are said to find themselves.
In Gylfaginning in the Prose Edda, Snorri Sturluson names V?r, one of the ?synjur, as the goddess who hears the oaths and contracts between men and women and who seeks vengeance when they are broken. Marriage was not performed with any sense of "until death," that comes from Jewish law and not Scandinavian or Germanic custom. Divorce was easily obtained by declaring it before witnesses as is easily found in the sagas and in law. It would not seem reasonable to assume that an ?satr? marriage would even have such a basis as "until death" so it would be unlikely that anyone end up in N?strand. Although the wrath of a goddess seeking vengeance might give one pause to wonder if such a place might not be preferable.
1) Nastrond in Old Norse sources, Wyrmsealle in Old English, is the abode of the Goddess Hel. Its not where oath-breakers go, and in fact Balder is known to feast with Hel within its walls. Oath-breakers and kin slayers are thrown into a river of blades, where they are torn up with the currents.
Marriage oaths, if made in the christian sense and usage, made by a heathen are indeed binding. However, they are only binding in so long as each of the parties honors the oath. An oath is not an indefinite and everlasting thing. If I broke my vows of fidelity, or failed to love my christian wife in richness and poorness, sickness and in health, in good and in bad, or punched her in face or brought her bodily harm, then I will have broken my oath.
I don't see it as deeming a swim in a sea of swords (well maybe wife beating, but not cheating)... after all marriage is a legal affair, and if I pay sold to my wife, and she accepts, then no harm no foul. If she violates the terms of our agreement/oath, then I am not honor bound to hold to it and may do as I please.
Luckily I love my wife (in spite of her beliefs) and she loves me (in spite of mine).
I think you mean Niflhel. It is the destination of the worst of the dead. Some see Niflhel as the same as Niflheim. Others see it as the basement of Hel (correct spelling of the Heathen term). Sometimes the least bad thing to do is to break an oath. If you oath to kill your mother, then you'd better break that oath. Many Heathen groups set a were gild at the time of swearing for oaths not fulfilled. I broke my confirmation vows by leaving Christianity. The result? About a year and a half of raw nerves. However, it was still the best thing I ever did. Essentially, it was a divorce of sorts. My understanding is that the grieving process associated with divorce usually takes about a year and a half to two years. Heathenism should be about honesty and common sense, not excessive legalism. Staying with an abusive spouse because you swore "till death do us part" gains you no points from the Gods. They don't think much of a lack of common sense, and you should have more respect for yourself than to do that to yourself anyway.
Marriage vows and Asatru?
