Norse/Teutonic/Odinic/asatru/ etc. Pagans, how do you feel about some of your organiz
by white supremacists?
Please, don't interpret this as me saying you all are Nazis--I know most of you are good people, but, as an example, many Odinist organizations have been fronts for the Aryan Nation here in California. What do you all know about this and what do you think about it?
Teawitch: I wouldn't personally give racist organizations enough credit to assume that they're capable of being logically consistent. I'm getting my information from gang watch sites--I was trying to learn about the local gangs in my area, and stumbled on to this little tidbit. Apparently it's becoming more and more common in SoCal. As to the origin of the Odinist groups in question, I cannot comment.
Frau:--I'm in Modesto, myself.
It's an insult to the gods and an insult to the legitimate spiritual path itself that someone would say "only someone with this background can share these beliefs."
Personally, though I'm an archetypal, I think that any of the deities (assuming they exist) would most certainly choose people based on their merits rather than their bloodlines. To say otherwise is to limit your understanding of the gods and to be quite petty and ego-centric.
Edit: :-D I'm not saying that it's bad to be proud of your heritage. Obviously, people can't change their parentage and hopefully don't want to. I'm just saying that while a person who isn't of Germanic or Hellenic heritage can't become Norse or Greek, there's no reason to ban them from learning about or practicing the religion. It may not be THEIR heritage, but that doesn't mean they can't get a lot of experience and knowledge and fellowship out of it.
We aggressively and vocally go after them, ban then from our boards, outlaw them from anything they attend or try to attend, and in generally socially decimate them.
It is about heritage, not hate. Being proud of my ethnic heritage does *not* mean hating or looking down on someone Else's. That does not mean I am better then them or have more rights. It doesn't make me special in any way, except to maybe me.
Nazitru's are coward beyond measure. They hide behind the hammer. *If* they are true followers of the faith, they should know that the gods don't give a bloody damn about what *you* think is right or wrong. They care about what *they* think is right or wrong. That should keep them up at night.
edit to add: there is a large difference between foolish and racist. There are those (and I agree with them to a point) that are of the mind that in Heathenism we see the gods as our ancestors. If they are not your ancestors, then what do you have to honor? That doesn't mean they are "banning" you. The gods call who they will. That doesn't mean they hate other races or see them inferior. It simply means that they see the gods as an ethnic and cultural right.
Folkish does not equal racist. Racist is NOT Heathenism.
Its terribly unfortunate that hatred is taught at all.
I have heard that- Hitler was an occultist, who had Himmler artfully blend Christian ideals with Nordic religion and Arthurian legend, so its not surprising that these people would attempt to identify with the religion that influenced Der Furher's beliefs.
On a personal level, I find these people repulsive, but I cannot say that I wish they would LEAVE my religion simply because what they practice and teach- Hatred - is not a part of my religion. Some people would say they're identification with Paganism would give us a black eye- but you have to remember that other organizations have their, Erma, "Black sheep" if that pun will be allowed. Christians have the KKK and "share" supremacists with us, and it doesn't truly reflect on that religion as a whole. Hopefully it won't with us.
First I find it saddening. a great many of those people have been mislead, and are now being mislead on a path that parallels a path that can redirect them.
Heathnic faiths tend to say that we should respect all faiths/cultures as they have due. The Neo Nazi "Nazi-true", it a sad representation of who we really are. Those poor kids (Most of them my age) are being lied to with the truth. (so-to-speak)
secondly i realize that although they should be brothers and sisters to me they are undoubtedly my foe. On my list of potential threats to Astra they are priority one, and also the most difficult to deal with. (I group them with the Prison "Astra's", and other hate groups hiding behind the names of our Gods.)
Following them are the West Boro Baptists (they are reasonably local, and as our two religions grow we are going to come into conflict (I am a locale to Southern Cali), followed by radical Islam, and fundamentalist Evangelicals.
Our Allys (as in groups that are not closely related to our faiths. So i am including all the recon groups, Asatru and Odinism into one big category) are other Heathenic groups, the Jews, The Mormons, The Quakers, and The Catholics.
Most of the other groups are netrual at worst.
Its pretty Ironic that i count the religion that decimated my own as a friend now. but that is the way of things.
These groups are all closely related with the moralistic principles of Asatru and Heathenism. (our morales are the same in many places)
It's the reason groups like Heathens Against Hate are necessary.
I'm a little surprised to hear Aryan Nations is using Odinist groups as a front. AN has historically been a Christian Identity group and has vehemently opposed Odinism.
This has been an ongoing problem for the Heathen community and has led to considerable perception of Heathenry as a whole. The press tends to run stories on the racist groups because that sells more papers than stories about people serious about reconnecting with their roots and heritage.
In the end though, it is really no different from Christians having to deal with groups like the KKK or the Christian Identity groups or British Israeli-ism.
Bigots and fascists exist in every strata of society. They will use anything they can to push their agendas.
I think we are not being infiltrated, but that the Aryan nation is setting up fake organizations to draw in the gullible to join them. The Aryan nation hates pagans as well, or didn't you know that?
I agree with the others: its a disgusting aspect we have to deal with in Heathenism/Asatru. We keep educating everyone as best we can that these people are to be driven from the community and expose them when possible. I've cut off long-term friendships because of anti-Semite and racist hatred coming to light.
HP is right, many of them hide behind the term "foolish" and it's sometimes hard to find where the line is drawn with some. Being proud of your heritage is NOT hatred. Hating others and claiming you're superior ISN'T true Asatru/Heathenism. Our ancestors were curious and tolerant of other cultures and ethnic groups.
If someone says they're Tru, they are until actions prove otherwise - gay, straight, black, white, red, Asian, male, female, young, old.
Well, to be honest, White Supremacists have been in Occult organizations for many, many years. It's not a recent development. Many of Blavatsky's followers in Theosophy were white supremacists. Many of the Nazi ideas were based off the old stories, but taken from a point of view that they were the "one true" way. It's sort of like reading a pagan religion with an old eon mind. What can we do about it? Not much. They can read the stories as well, and interpret them as they will. Hopefully we can just combat them at every turn.
What really puzzles me about it is that Hitler's very own book, Mein Kampf, contains an entire paragraph detailing how much he hates Pagan/Heathen reconstruction ism. I can't figure out how people who perceive him as a hero would openly ignore him in this regard and claim to follow a religion he hated.
The whole idea of white supremacy or racial purity is entirely ridiculous anyway, you don't have to go far back into history to find mass migrations, interbreeding and religion-political shifting causing almost every human being alive today to be a mixture of more than one so called race. Something like 1 in 10 human males world wide possess Ghengis Kahn's Y chroma some and Hitler's claim to Germany's Teutonic purity is immediately falsified by the occupation of those lands by the Hun (the people of Attila mentioned in the Eddas more than once) who were not originally European (some believe they came from Turkey, others believe they came from further East).
Now all that aside I do believe that each tribe has it's own gods and a member of that tribe will find his spiritual home with those gods rather than the gods of another tribe or culture, but tribal cultures have as much to do with geography as they do with genetics. I wouldn't actively seek to stop anyone from seeking to find their roots in ?satr? although I might suggest they'd find it easier to search their own culture first either way it's not my job to tell others what to believe.
Where ?satr? is concerned, racism has no precident. The original practitioners of our faith were in no way racist and the Hav?m?l has more than one stanza which quite clearly illustrate that racism is wrong and is not a suitable behavior for anyone who claims troth with the Aesir and Vanir.
I must admit that I will, on occasion laugh at the odd racist joke (especially those about the French, but hey I'm English) and the odd sexist one too but I do not tolerate outright racism or sexism in ?satr? or in general.
I believe this to be a major problem and some "Odinic" organizations very cleverly hide their true agendas. We must be constantly vigilant and remove these people from our groups when ever and where ever we find then.
Well in Asatru you will find racists...they are most commonly known as Volkish or even Folkish...you have bad apples no matter where you look....but as a whole ...the Asatru Community are very accepting to all who have an open mind and who are here to honor the older gods.
The only Heathen org with which I am affiliated, outside of our own small local Kindred, is The Troth (WNW.thetroth.org).
It is so in-your-face anti-racist, as is my own website (http://home.earthlink.net/~jordsvin) that I don't worry about being mistaken for a racist.
Norse/Teutonic/Odinic/asatru/ etc. Pagans, how do you feel about some of your organiz
