Regarding the Baha'i Faith, I have heard many people ask for proof?
Proof God exists, proof He does not, many other things. But regarding the Baha'i Faith. what would you you accept as proof? If you have studied it, in what way do you think the proof fails? Would you be willing to look at what someone else claims is proof, even if it does not match what you answer here? If not why not?
Mc Bogey, your miracle would not sway me in the least. What I demanded as proof is far above and beyond that which most people demand, but I am more than satisfied the proof is there and undeniable.
B.K., what you are asking as far as an unknown scientific truth about the Universe? That exists, and I have referred to some of them in some of my answers. Again, miracles and supernatural events would not sway me, even if they were instantaneous answer to prayers. But I submit that my investigation of the Baha'i Faith followed scientific standards and procedures and my conclusions are at least as scientifically sound and testable as the conclusion there was the Big Bang, and maybe even more so.
B.K., I did not, in the context of my question, state proof exists there is a God. My full question would not fit in the limits allowed and I had to continue it in Details. Here is my full initial question as I would have like to have worded it:
I have heard many people ask for proof God exists, proof He does not, many other things. But regarding the Baha'i Faith. what would you you accept as proof? If you have studied it, in what way do you think the proof fails? Would you be willing to look at what someone else claims is proof, even if it does not match what you answer here? If not why not?
But the fact is I have offered proof and more than once. But the proof in no way could fit in the confines of even a dozen questions and answers and I had to resort to offering references. But this question is not about trying to convince or convert, it is for my edification, to answer a question that is on my mind, that and nothing more. I am trying to keep this in the limits allowed.
As with any religion you must first define what you think god is. Then some kind of measurable, observable, and repeatedly testable evidence would be nice. Something other than faith, which is what every religion uses.
For starters, how about god suddenly carve a section of mountain, say about forty miles long, in an instant, that says "god is real." That would certainly sway me.
You said "proof god exists" but that ain't proof!!!!! Like all religious people, you talk about proof, but you don't say what it is. No, I wouldn't be willing to accept what someone else claims to be proof, without it being scientifically verified, and repeatable by experiment. If it can't be verified - it probably ain't true. If someone told you they had proof the moon was made of cheese, would you just believe them?
How about a scientific study verifying a miracle, or supernatural event instigated by requesting it from your god, or the appearance of your god in person, or some unknown truth revealed to your Baha'whatever about the Universe that can be scientifically tested.
Creation is a patent reflection of a creative force. There are many co lours to a summer garden, and they all compliment each other to maintain a natural balance. It is only when people misinterpret the message of religious/spiritual text that imbalances occur. Many religions condition their adherents to follow only one teaching, and warn them about following anything that is contrary to what their particular system teaches. Everything flows out of one and back into one, rejecting other truths other than what one has been taught to believe as being the only truth strengthens the divisions of society. All religions and all faiths are but merely reflections of our ability to interpret, describe, and define what that power of creation is. I do not follow any structure of religion, but I am religious in the sense that I pursue the highest experience of love. The journey leads us down many roads and all roads are apart of the journey. I bless me in you and you in me for we are truly one!
The greatest proof of God is His Manifestation. If you believe in Baha'u'llah, you must also believe in God. And Baha'u'llah's proofs are great and undeniable. His life, character and teachings, His prophecies and the prophecies He fulfilled, the power of His writings and the community He established are His main proofs. These have been summarized and explained in numerous books. The Baha'is of the 1880's explained them quite well to E.G. Browne in "A Year Amongst the Persians". I suggest you have a look at the chapters "Shiraz (continued)" and "Yazd (continued)" where he has long conversations with the Baha'is there.
The proof that God exists is His continued interaction with humanity through countless Manifestations of God who have been the main initiators of development in human civilization. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and God's hand in human affairs is quite manifest if one really looks into things.
McBogey, seriously, God and His religion are not par lour tricks. It's not a show for your amusement. God's proofs are evident and manifest for anyone who has the perception to recognize them. If you're asking for scientific proofs, that is ridiculous. Science only deals with the material university: energy, matter, etc. God does not exist in the material universe. If you want to know what the Baha'i definition of God is, I suggest you read some Baha'i scriptures before replying.
B. K. writes: "How about a scientific study verifying a miracle, or supernatural event instigated by requesting it from your god, or the appearance of your god in person, or some unknown truth revealed to your Baha'whatever about the Universe that can be scientifically tested."
Again, God is not a magician who appears to perform tricks whenever you want. The very fact that you believe God, an eternal Essence who doesn't exist in the physical material universe, could appear before you, shows that you don't have a real conception of what God is. God isn't a ghost or a superman or a bearded man on a cloud. He is the eternal unknowable Essence. How can that be scientifically tested? What science does show is that everything "material", everything contingent has an origin, meaning that all creation must come from one origin. That one origin must exist outside of time and space.
If you want proofs of prophecies, etc. simply read the Baha'i writings and you will find proofs. The fall of Napoleon III? The development of international institutions? How about the banks of the Rhine being covered in gore? All of these and many more were accurate prophecies by Baha'u'llah.
I'm not certain how to prove the Faith, beyond referring you to the Book of Certitude by Baha'u'llah or Thief in the Night by William Sears.
For me, the proof is in the principles: that science and religion must go hand in hand; that women and men must be treated equally and have equal access to education, and that, if a family has a son and daughter and is forced by financial destitution to choose which to educate, that they must choose the daughter; that we must have an international auxiliary language; that we must have a uniform system of weights and measures; that we must have a spiritual solution to the economic problems that face us.
Baha'u'llah said that miracles are not proof that a person is from God. The person witnessing them may accept them as proof, but later on begin to doubt that they really witnessed what they thought they witnessed. One of the evidences of proof is the power of a Manifestation of God to change the satanic qualities of an individual to heavenly attributes: character change. Another evidence is the Revelation itself. What other explanation for the outpouring of knowledge and wisdom can account for the Revelation? Over 100 books in the case of Baha'u'llah, and this from a man who had received only the elementary instructions as a child of reading and writing. This will not be evident to a person unless he has surveyed the written Revelation. Baha'u'llah had no access to libraries as a prisoner. Baha'u'llah endured 40 years of imprisonment, banishment from his homeland and torture because of His teachings and actions in promoting a new Revelation. This is evidence that He was not interested in material things and that He was not an impost er. Only a person who is truly convinced that He has been chosen by God for a Divine Mission would put up with such conditions for the last 40 years of His life. In the end, a person must invest some time and effort to be convinced of the truth of Baha'u'llah. The fact that there now exists about 6 million Baha'is in the world from every nation and thousands of cultural and religious backgrounds is evidence that Baha'u'llah's purpose for mankind is coming into being.
I think that what you look for in searching for the truth is evidence that something is true. The more evidence you uncover, the more likely that you will accept it all as proof. ---Bruno