Why do members of the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox Church pray to the sain
missing something. I was taught as a protestant that prayer is for God alone. Can someone explain the belief of prayers to saints so that I can understand it??
The peasant in the field for some reason (He He) is afraid of God. But the fat friar who saved the toenail relic from the marauding Saxons, he can relate to. So he prays through him.
Yes, it's 100% against what the Bible tells us to do, but the people, they are too stupid to see that for themselves and I'm not telling them.
You know the John 3:16 thing, the whole everlasting life thing, they got that deal as well. The saints are alive with God. If we ask them to pray FOR us, it in just fine.
From scripture, the prayers of the saints are before the throne of God, as incense. (Revelation 5:8, 8:3, 8:4.)
Not much use if they are dead.
Catholics share the belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal, and Methodist Churches.
The Communion of Saints is the belief where all saints are intimately related in the Body of Christ, a family. When you die and go to heaven, you do not leave this family.
Everyone in heaven or on their way to heaven are saints, you, me, my deceased grandmother, Mary the mother of Jesus, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II.
As part of this family, you may ask your family and friends living here on earth to pray for you. Or, you may also ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Andrew, or your deceased grandmother living in heaven to pray for you.
Prayer to saints in heaven is simple communication, not worship.
Asking others to pray for you whether your loved ones on Earth or your loved ones in heaven is always optional.
And I have not even began to discuss saints as role models who said "Yes!" to God.
For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 946 and following: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p5.shtml#946
Here is a 2003 statement by Evangelical and Catholic Christians together on "The Communion of Saints"
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=459
not sure why it matters if you are a protestant. there are protestant churches dedicated to Saint Paul and Peter. If God asked Mary for help. Jesus surrounded Himself with the apostles, DIsciples, Mary (ET AL) to help Him. read revelation and you will understand that the saints are under the altar ready and waiting. We ask them for help. we know that they themselves are nothing without God.
Prayer is primarily making requests, not adoring or worshiping. In part, from
Main Entry: pray
...
intransitive verb 1 : to make a request in a humble manner
2 : to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving.
Orthodox and Catholic Christians believe that the bond of love between believers is not severed by the mere death of the body, and that the departed are conscious and aware of our continuing struggles. Just as you might ask a friend or pastor to pray for you, or call in to the evangelist's phone lines to ask perfect strangers to pray, so we ask those who are now closer to God's presence to pray for us.
The Orthodox also have short hymns to the saints, which very frequently end something like this: "Pray to the merciful God that our souls may be saved.". It's clear that prayer in this way -- which is simply asking for prayers to God -- is not worship.
we ask them to pray for us.. we believe in them.. they are part of the Heavenly Church.. we ask them to pray for us because they are alive, protestants don't pray to God directly.. they pray to God through Jesus.
We simply ask the saints to pray for us. The "prayer" to a saint is Saint ____ pray for me and the full hail Mary text is along the lines of Hail Mary full of grace the lord is with you, blesses are you amongst women and blessed is the fruit of your womb- Jesus Christ for you have born the savior of our souls.- Somewhat biblical inspired and points to the fact Christ is our God, Lord and Savior.
We believe since they are in heaven with God that they are more alive than we are so if I can ask you to pray for me- then surly I can ask the Aposltes to pray for me as well.
One way to look at it is say for example a neighbor of yours that you admired and was known for his kindness is elected to congress and you need help with a bad person. You would call him and ask him to help your town and self deal with this person and for guidance. Same difference with asking help from those proclaimed a Saint.
I will be the first to admit that at times i feel the Church elevated the roles of Saints to give the Pagans a comfortable replacement for their GODs they were told to no longer honor . But in other ways it makes sense as it is human nature to look up to and seek help from those we deem capable of it. So being as GOD came to us in Human form and lived with us and showed us the way and gave us a living example to imitate why not Saints as they imitated our LOrds teachings best and now have received the ultimate reward eternity with GOD. The fault i see with most Protestants is there unwilling to put any real effort in there beliefs and think things are as simple as just believing and going to Church when ever the spirit moves them or a friend or relative dies. To them just a few words from a Preacher and reading the bible is good enough,where as with devout Catholics it is our very act of living that we give glory to GOD in all things including his choice of allowing his Saints to aid us and seek his council on our behalf and a example of how we should lead our lives.
The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.
Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalm 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2)
Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).
Jesus himself warned us not to mess with small children because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 18:10).
Because he is the only God-man, Jesus is the only Mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1-4), including those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).
Furthermore, Catholics do not differentiate between the living (in this world) and the dead (those who departed) members of the Body of Christ (the fullness of the Church.) The fullness of the mystical Body of Christ is found in the union of all the saints, past and present, here below and those above in Heaven.
This is because the Bible does not state that you can ONLY pray to GOD alone. If you have been taught this, then please point me to the direction where it is explicated as such.
Please refer to the book of Revelations where we see the Angels approaching the altar, bearing incense and the "prayers" of the saints. Now, if the Saints are already in heaven, why would there be prayers needed? Why? It's because they are our prayers... when we ask for the Saints to intercede for us.
<< was taught as a protestant that prayer is for God alone>>
Has it occurred to you that you might have been taught wrong? I was Protestant for most of my life, and I thought that prayer was for God alone too. However, I was wrong.
Worship is for God alone. Prayer is a request, not worship. So when we "pray" to saints we are making a request...usually that the pray with us and for us. Just like you might ask a family member or friend to pray for you.
Because Protestants don't ask for intercession from those who have died in Christ, they end up only praying to God. So over time it has become assumed that prayer is only for God, but that was never the way it was.The Catholic Church is 2000 years old, and the Catholic people have asked for the intercession of the saints for all those years. Protestant faiths only came along later and in order to distance themselves from Catholicism, they dropped many practices, and over time those practices have become misinterpreted by non-Catholics.
Hey, will you pray for my Uncle because he's got shingles ... so pray for him Kay?
Does this mean I worship you when I ask you to pray for someone? Neither does it mean that I pray to the Saints when I ask them to pray for me. I'm just honoring God's glory and creation of them and asking them as I ask my living brothers and sisters in Christ.
If the above is incorrect to do, then there are way many other sectors of Christainity that are doing it wrong. I mean the 700 Club, and all the other people who have "call in prayers" for the faithful.
Sadly, most of what the Cc/Oc practice isn't Biblical (paganism relabeled Christian) so the Cc/Oc isn't Christian (dictionary def. doesn't = God's Standard). I almost became Catholic & found it NO BETTER than Protestant churches I grew up in (many dint stick 2 the Biblical truth). Many wont find Jesus, the truth (i.e. NO Christian goes 2 Heaven until the 2ND Coming [= God of the living], the DEAD 1rest then the living @ that time [1 Thes 4:15-17] - only 3-4 exceptions - not Mary/real saints, so they CANT HEAR Ur prayers - Rev "prayers of saints" r from while they were ALIVE).
Many ways seem right 2 man but its end = death = Mt 7:21-23. Jesus is about the truth that stands 4ever unchanged not religious rituals/mantra/traditions of men (Cc type sacraments/statues/pictures/recital of "Godly" sounding creeds/words r meaningless).
Rituals HIV no meaning under the NT Covenant. Hebrew rituals were by instruction of God (b/c of bondage 2 sin) the best 1 could do under God's Law (None in NT). Other religions (even many Christian) either copied or invented rituals (the best humans could invent within limits of being human). Jesus' perfect sacrifice canceled the need 4 all rituals/priests (doing them calls God a liar as it makes it appear Jesus failed His mission - Jesus is the only Priest now). The closest thing 2 a ritual is Communion but its not 2 b treated as a ritual as its 2 b treated most seriously (not Jesus' actual body/blood - Cc belief).
Many dont know the diff. btwn a ritual done as a ritual & genuine "remembrance" - not possible without knowing Jesus' actual Biblical instructions - absent in Cc teachings (the Cc didnt write any of the NT [not a Cc text - NT was written by 1rst century Apostles {NT Gospels/letters preserved the truth 4 all ppl not the Cc}, full Cc possession was not until 4th century] - contradicts their claims. Jesus is about being 1 in Spirit & truth not rituals - God allowed the Cc 2 produce the Bible [a privilege not a rite] despite wrong teachings (only 66 Bible Books r legit) like He allowed Romans 2 fulfill prophecy w/o their knowledge (happening again today). A teaching can hv a truth but the action taken superficial - The Cc/others, like the Pharisees, know how 2 clean the outside of the cup but dont understand how the inside is 2 b cleaned with respect 2 Jesus' actual message. Having an altar @ the center of church practices is 1 clue of their being about rituals not the truth.
Problem is theres many religions/subsets. 1 day I realized they cant all b right (i.e. theres 1 Bible, why so many interpretations? - II Pet 1:**19-21). Most religions came thru ppl who thought up things 4 a God they/others liked. Some realized religion could b good 2 control the masses/other agendas - but, religion cant teach u much about God (they cant teach what they dont know). Who knows more about a house the Builder or those moving in later?
4 Christians, trouble began when the Apostles/disciples were killed off/died in the 1rst century (Christianity was illegal @ the time). Over the next century others (whom either didnt know Jesus/were less informed than Jesus' 1rst generation of believers &/or (un)intentionally added in their own ideas/agendas) replaced original believers. By the time the Cc became a "state - Jn 18:36" recognized organization in Constantine's reign (about AD 325), most of what Jesus taught/original Apostles practiced were no longer present.
The Cc mixed in Pagan/OT religious practices 2 please/draw in ppl, thus, creating a new religion they labeled "Christian/Catholic". The Cc's, like other religions' agendas (some mayve been well-intentioned), was mostly 2 control masses/influence politics (II Tim 2:*4; I Jn 2:*15-17; Col 2:*8; Jer 10:*2-5). The Cc claims they didnt give out Bibles 4 over a century b/c ppl couldnt read so why didnt they teach ppl 2 read?
God & Jesus hv never been about pleasing man. In fact, the Cc/RCc/Oc made religions just like the Pharisees, which Jesus flat out stated was an abomination b/c they were about pleasing man not God (Mt 23:15; LK 16:15). Even when Protestants/others split off from the Cc they kept the same wrong Cc format.
Even tho these churches got rid of some Cc nonsense they still didnt know much about Jesus (most skipped over Biblical instructions 4 various agendas) nor did they seek Jesus' instructions [huge mistake - they're fulfilling prophecies against their practices (Amos 8:*11; Jr 12:*10: Is 5:*9 (large houses r churches - Mt 24:*1-2); Hos 4:*6: Mk 7:1-23 (John 3:*3,5 & Ez 36:24-27,*26); Lk 16:**15 (see Rv 21:27; Jr 10:**2-5; Is 1:*11-15)].
2 Major Cc lies:
1. The CC claims 2 b the 1rst church & since they r the longest existing church, they r the only "official" church. Jesus' Apostles never named their church catholic (not in the Bible nor in line with God's message that never changes) nor did they ever practice Cc rituals. There was nearly a 240 yr gap btwn Jesus' original Apostle's church & the start of the Cc org - so the Cc was never a part of nor the true 1rst Christian Church (Neither a label/title/name, its history, # of members, amount of time it existed or claims made about them means anything (u can call anything anything). Whats practiced makes them either the whole truth or a lie. A dictionary def. doesnt necessarily encompass God's full definition/word usage (or His exceptions thereof). I.e. Jesus/Biblical prophets were never muslims no matter what Islam claims & the Cc's claim of veneration of saints/Mary is a form of idolatry no matter what they claim (calling a dog god [or pope] doesnt make it God).
2. Peter was never a pope nor was he/other Apostles ever members of the Cc (not in the Bible = no apostolic succession) the use of the word pope is a Cc invention - the Bible instructs us not 2 go beyond whats written (I Cor 4:6; Rv 22:18-19 - Cc claimed *oral* teaching isnt in nor Biblical). Peter was never a Cc bishop (he died nearly 240 yrs b4 the Cc was a church). Peter wouldnt call himself a pope nor b a member of the Cc b/c calling 1self "holy" Father/other Cc teachings r abominations (combo of rituals/false "human" priesthoods - Paul meant he was like a father not a holy Cc father). Even the devil knows Jesus is God's Son so 1 would b wise not 2 trust any church ahead of whats in the Bible. Calling urself a Christian/saying u believe in Jesus doesnt make it true - recital of words means nothing (Mat 23:2 says do what they say not what they do [they were under Pharisee rulers] - now we know Pharisee practices r wrong so we follow Jesus' Biblical teachings [u can leave the Cc - Luke 10:16 - He who rejects Jesus/His Biblical teachings rejects Christ - if a person/church isnt listening 2 Jesus then we dont join them]).
Religion is built on what man likes, not on Jesus' instructions so few will b saved thru most of them (u cant save urself by ur own initiative nor will good deeds save u - theres no good in any man - Rom 1:23). 1 must b very careful not 2 get sucked in or going 2 various denominations (especially if u dont hv a good handle on whats actually written in the Bible) as it'll add 2 ur confusion.
B/c religions made many fatal mistakes doesnt mean God doesnt know what He's doing. Many missed this: Jesus is the only 1 in history who said no1 can find our real God except thru Jesus (Jn 14:6; 5:39; 10:1,7; Acts 4:11) - means "the" truth was complete/finished in what Jesus did. So, all so-called new teaching/other beliefs r invalid & cant lead u 2 God. The truth is either the whole truth or its a lie. Either Jesus told the whole truth or He's a false prophet, among many, who should b disregarded. It would also mean God must not exist either (He either knows what He's doing or He cant b God).
Jesus couldnt hv done/said what He did unless He fully knew the entire OT (NT didnt exist @ the time of Jesus - only way Jesus couldve known the whole OT is if God sent Him). The Apostles couldnt write the NT unless Jesus allowed them 2 know/remember His purpose (Lk 24:25-27,45). Only God could cause it.
No matter how much well-meaning ppl (religious or not) read the Bible they cant find Jesus w/o going 2 Him thru His Biblical instructions (Jn 5:39; 10:1,7; 3:3,5). God outsmarted man - the Bible is the only 1 that cant b properly understood w/o Jesus (Jn 14:6; II Cor 3:14, Is 29:11-12 - If Jewish ppl cant pierce the veil over the OT w/o Jesus 4 sure all gentiles cant) - why theres many interpretations/many thinking its fairy tales (Jesus came with the sword of division).
We believe, based on Scripture, that the saints in Heaven are very much alive, and that they hear our requests, so we ask them to pray for us.
First, to be clear, all worship is prayer, but not all prayer is worship. Another definition of "pray" means simply "to ask." So when we pray to the saints, we are asking them to pray for us, just as if you or I would ask a friend or family member here on Earth to pray for us. Our statues and pictures of the saints are seen in much the same light. They're just like pictures you might have of friends and family. They're there to remind us of their existence. They're also a bit of a holdover from when very, VERY few people could read, and they helped to tell the stories from Scripture.
The first verse that tells us that the saints are alive comes from Matthew. In 22:32, Jesus speaks of "the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob," stating that "he is not God of the dead, but of the living."
Second, we have James 5:16-18. "The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. Elijah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit."
Next, we have Revelation 21:27 and 22:14, both of which tell us that those in Heaven no longer have any sin.
There is also plenty of biblical evidence that the saints can hear us and are praying for us. Take, for example, the "cloud of witnesses" that Hebrews 12:1 describes. Or, look at Revelation 6:9-12, in which prayers are given for us in Heaven. In Revelation 8:3-4, an angel possesses "prayers of the saints" and in turn presents them to God. The saints in Heaven are clearly aware of earthly happenings.
You Protestants all too commonly think of all prayer as worship, when that simply isn't the case, as I pointed out earlier. We agree that all worship rightly belongs to God alone, but not all prayer. In fact, in the original sense of the word "pray," you were praying to all Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox church members here on Y!Answers by posting this question!
We are to pray to God only. Many people twist the scriptures to allow them to pray to Mary and the saints. The model prayer Jesus gave us is praying to God only!!
We can ask living people to pray for us, this is what God said we can do. Many people have taken this and applied it to praying to dead people also.
Matthew 7:21 ?Not everyone who says to me, ?Lord, Lord,? will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ?Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?? 23And then will I declare to them, ?I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.?
Many people who think they are Christians will not enter into heaven because they are not doing the will of the Father. People who pray to Mary will not enter into heaven. God wants us to pray to Him only!!
I ask my father to pray for me all the time he has been dead for 25 years now. I do not worship him just ask him to pray for me. That is the same thing we do with the saints.
Protestants don't separate the term pray and worship. Many Catholics do not even realize it but the two terms are not interchangeable. the word pray is rooted in a word that means to ask for. When one prays to a saint they are in fact asking a saint to ask God for them. Its no different than asking a friend to pray for you. Catholics believe that the dead are currently alive in heaven. The Biblical reference for this is in one of the books the protestants took out of the Bible. Worship on the other hand is reserved for God and God alone for he is the creator of all things.
PRAYER - The voluntary response to the awareness of God's presence. This response may be an acknowledgment of God's greatness and of a person's total dependence on him (adoration), or gratitude for his benefits to oneself and others (thanksgiving), or sorrow for sins committed and begging for mercy (expiation), or asking for graces needed (petition), or affection for God, who is all good (love).
INTERCESSION - Entreaty in favor of another person; hence mediation. In biblical language, "there is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus, who sacrificed himself as a ransom for them all" (I Timothy 2:5-6). The Blessed Virgin, Mediatrix of all graces, the angels, saints in heaven, souls in purgatory, and the faithful on earth intercede for mankind by their merits and prayers.
WORSHIP - Acknowledgment of anther's worth, dignity, or superior position. In religion, worship is given either to God, and then it is adoration, or to the angels and saints, and it is called veneration. Divine worship actually includes three principal acts, namely adoration (or the recognition of God's infinite perfection), prayer or the asking for divine help, and sacrifice or the offering of something precious to God. Worship as veneration also has three principal forms, whereby the angels and saints are honored for their sanctity, asked to intercede before the divine Majesty, and imitated in their love and service of God. (Etym. Old English worthies,PEonor, dignity, reverence: weorth, worth +ship.)
Why do members of the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox Church pray to the sain
