ROMAN CATHOLIC or EASTERN ORTHODOX? Which church is JESUS' TRUE CHURCH? I really need
It's pretty obvious (historically, culturally, and doctrinally) that the TRUE Christian Church is either the Catholic or the Orthodox Church. But I can't seem to figure out which one is it?
If you're Protestant or "Evangelical" or "Non-Denominational" or one of those weirdos who say "I don't believe in religion, but I believe in a relationship with Jesus", there's no need for you to answer this question. This is a serious question for seriously intelligent people. The fact that you follow a heretic who started his cult less than 600 years ago tells me that I don't even need to take you seriously.
Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.
Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today?s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)
If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.
~~The Church Is "One"
(Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13, CCC 813?822)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23?32). Jesus can have but one spouse. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).
~~The Church Is "Holy"
(Eph. 5:25?27, Rev. 19:7?8, CCC 823?829)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This dozen?t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21?23).
~~The Church Is "Catholic"
(Matt. 28:19?20, Rev. 5:9?10, CCC 830?856)
Jesus? Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19?20).
For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28).
The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. Ignatius was a disciple of St. John the apostle.
~~The Church Is "Apostolic"
(Eph. 2:19?20, CCC 857?865)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2).
Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12?13).
How about directly following what the Bible says instead?
Don't limit yourself to the teachings of men. People can be wrong. But the words that Jesus said, and the parables He taught, and the teachings of the Apostles, those are incorruptible and unchangeable. So how about it? Read the Bible, and let the Word of God be your judge over which denomination follows it properly.
Here are the two that I seek to live by:
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." [Matthew 22:37-40]
"Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." [James 1:27]
Neither. The Mandaean faith that John the Baptist is said to have started and Jesus taught as well following in his cousin's footsteps after execution. Though the Gnostic Christian faith is probably the oldest that calls itself christian.
Jesus' True Church is not on a specific religion but on every Christian in the world who practices His words, deeds and values. Doing those belongs to Church of God. Religion is just a medium to express our faith to God
There are many churches that can trace their origins with the "original" church, the RC and Orthodox being just two. Anglicans also claim this - the Apostolic Order being vital to their thinking.
That, in fact, is one of the keys - the Apostolic Order. While this has several definitions from various churches, most theologians consider this to be where the people who received the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost, who then went out and passed this gift on, through the laying on of hands, as they "ordained" others, who then went on, and .... all the way down to today to be part of the unbroken line back to the beginnings of the Church. That is possible one argument that can be made for the denominations that preserve this unbroken change as being linked to the oldest church. As I said, there are several denominations that do this, not just RC's and Orthodox.
Truly, there is no one church that can really make this claim, although many try. Any study of religious history will show that a split does not mean one is right, and the other wrong. If you cut an apple in half, which is the "true" apple? They both are!
It's the Eastern Orthodox Church on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays and the Catholic church on Tuesdays' Thursdays and Saturdays. They alternate Sundays and switch order every leap year.
Neither. Why does everyone ignore the Scriptures stating that the Christian congregations WOULD go apostate after the Apostles died? In fact the Apostles said it was already starting. God said he would re-establish the truth in the time of the end. And form a true Christian Congregation. Why do you ignore God's word? Don't you believe or trust in God?
clearly neither one because Jesus was a Jew, and moreover he condemned many of the things that these churches both do. it is more reasonable to ask which one is the continuation of the one christian church that existed say around 1000 AD, and the answer is that both have an equal claim. they separated soon after that over some trivial differences, and mostly because of politics. moreover, they did briefly reunite once or twice since then, only to split again--which just confirms that they really have no serious differences.
neither.....if you really serious about finding the true church...look to Jesus for your answer...if your serious you will get the answer your looking for.
The Catholic Church Historically speaking - has the upper hand established in Jerusalem founded by Christ.2000 years of an unbroken line of successors to Peter.East Orthodox Schism from The HRRC - C.1054 and has 12 bodies under its banner as for the Church,only the one institution.Unified and unconquerable.
Actually, both are Jesus' true Church because they both flow from the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. They are both in near communion with one another. Pray that they reunite soon. All Catholic Churches that are united with the pope are considered Catholic. There are other Catholic Churches that are not called RC that are also united with the pope. The Greek Orthodox Catholics have nearly full communion and there is much effort being done to reunite those churches by the current pope. I hope and pray that the Greek Orthodox read their early Church Fathers to see that they once believed in the authority of the chair of St. Peter (the pope) and return to their roots. I would like to see them reunited in my life time. I pray to the Lord that He reunites them because it will only happen by His grace.
How did the early Church know who was the true Church? They looked to see what Church has Apostolic Succession. Both the RC and GO have Apostolic Succession. The difference is the RC also has the Chair of St. Peter (the Pope) who received authority in Mt 16:18-19 over the Church. This isn't just me speaking but the early Church Fathers believed this as well. The Pope serves the entire Church. For whoever wishes to be the greatest Jesus says must be servant of all. This authority was set up to guide and keep the Church true and on Apostolic foundations. To deny this authority is to be on unsure footing.
Personally, I think unity is more important than whatever small differences we may have.
The Church that Jesus Christ Started at PENTECOST ( GR Meaning 50 Days) after Shavout ( Tue
Time the Torah was Given to Moses.)
was Started in JERUSALEM.. . when the HOLY SPIRIT DSCENDED UPON CHRIST'S APOSTLES
AND THEY BEGAN TO SPEAK IN TONGUES ( GLASSOLALIA) ( LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD
TO THE PEOPLE OF ALL THE WORLD ( TO ALL)
FOR ALL) MEANING AND THEY WERE SENT OUT TO PREACH THE WORD OF GOD TO ALL
IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGES. ( CHRISTIANITY WAS STARTED AT GREEK PENTECOST
I
http://www.goarch.org/special/listen_learn_share/pentecost/
SHAVOUT IS THE FESTIVAL OF THE WEEKS AND THE TIME THE TORAL WAS RECEIVED BY MOSES ( NOR IS IT GREEK PENTECOST . JUDAISM DOES NOT CELEBBRATE PENTECOST
IT WAS GIVEN FOR ALL .. BUT THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS GREEK / AND THE FIRST CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES ARE IN GREEK ( THE TRUE CHURCH IS THE ONE THAT JESUS
STARTED AT PENTECOST (FOR ALL)
HERE IS THE GREEK .. STILL EXISTS NT
http://www.greeknewtestament.com/
THERE IS NO JEW OR GREEK AMONG YOU .. IN GALATIONS 3.28 IN BIBLE
<< Galatians 3:28 >>
New International Version (?1984)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus
http://bible.cc/galatians/3-28.htm\ ( GREEK NEW TESTAMENT)
WE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST.. ( IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN ( HOWEVER YOU ARE NOT TO
ADD OR TAKE AWAY FROM THE BIBLE .. AS SOME DO..\
Do not alter (delete or add to) God's Word
"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2 BUBE
"...if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bond servant of Christ." Galatians 1:9-10
http://bible.cc/galatians/3-28.htm
THE TRUE CHRUCH IS THE ONE THAT JESUS STARTED. IF YOU ADD OR DELETE FROM THE WORD OF GOD. ( YOU DON'T FOLLOW THE TRUTH) ( IT WAS STARTED IONS BEFORE THE RC CHURCH WAS STARTED AND JESUS DID NOT ADD PETER ( A GREEK NAME WHICH JESUS GAVE TO ( A JEW WHOSE NAME WAS Was Simon Bar Jonah TO PETROS ( STONE NOT ROCK..
ROCK IS PETRA.. IN GREEK AND GREEK NAME FOR A PERSON IS PTROS ( AS THE APOSTLE OF CHRIST WAS CALLED)
PETROS ( IS A FIRST GREEK NAME..
THE PROSTESTANTS , EVANGELICALS ( BOTH GREEK NAMES ARE FINE ) IF YOU FOLLOW WHAT IS WRITTEN.. ( JESUS STARTED THE CHRUCH FOR ALL
THE ROCK ( PETRA) IS GOD/ JOHN 1.1. FATHER/SON/HOLY GHOST.. NOT PETER .
IN BIBLE OT .. THE ROCK IS GOD. ( NOT A MAN WHO DIES . READ
... nglish Standard Version (?2001) THE ROCK OF ISRAEL IS GOD.... ( NO ONE ELSE
The God of Israel has spoken; the Rock of Israel has said to me: When one rules justly over men, ruling in the fear of God,
IN NT ROCK IS ROCK ( NOT PETER A MAN WHO DIES)
http://bible.cc/2_samuel/23-3.htm
THE ROCK ( PETRA )STANDS.. PETER ( PETROS) DIED AS ALL WILL DIE
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock." (Matthew 7:24-25)
http://www.wordoftruthradio.com/questions/47.html
DAVID CALLED GOD THE ROCK..
IC XC NIKA
GREEK ORTHODOX ( RIGHT WORSHIP) GREEK FIRST KATHOLIKOS ( MEANS UNIVERSAL FOR ALL) APOSTOLIC CRHISTIAN OF THE FIRST GREEK SEPTUAGINT AND FIRST GREEK
NEW TESTAMENT OF THE WORLD
Both of these churches originate from the one church built on Saint Peter's leadership,
the main difference between them is a disagreement over the location of the Vatican and who the pope should be.
We pray all elements of schism or fracture will be healed.
Both believe in Jesus as Lord, and hold doctrinal truth, as a Roman Catholic, I follow the Pope located in Rome...... currently Pope Benedict XVI
pray about it, and seek counsel of the priest in your local parish.
which is the true church? the truth is only one. there can't be truth in every church especially when they teach opposite to each other.
you know that first was one church but what happened than? than came some people and started teaching their personal opinions about gospel, and if become deeper you'll see that it's sacrilege and abusive of god (like Nestorianism which is abusive of Jesus Christ and Theotokos) holy fathers where treeing to say their views were wrong but they didn't listen and brought disturbing in church, which is a big sin because in church must be peace. because of heretics' sacrilege teachings were held ecumenical councils. and heretics were anathematized and rejected from the church. church is the one, and it's Eastern Orthodox church, because other ''churches'' don't belong to Jesus Christ.
now about ''Catholics''. Eucharist union between catholics and Orthodox was can celled,
situation was strained between church of Constantinople and church of Rome because:
there were many abrogates of traditions and cannons in Roman church, Pope didn't recognized new Patriarch of Constantinople (that question is deep) and Romans wanted to spread their jurisdiction on Slavic territories (today Russia, Ukraine, Belorus...) but they wanted church of Constantinople because they were preaching in their Slavic language and Romans only in Latin.
but the main reason of the great schism were: Pope's primacy and Filioque.
Filioque - Catholics be live that Holy spirit comes from father and from the son too, they dared and changed the creed and even if filioque was true they shouldn't have changed the creed because holy fathers coursed who would changed not a word, even a syllable too!
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzyCorK1I5M)
Catholics argumentation is Pentecost, but that doesn't mean that Filioque is true, look what Jesus says:
"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds FROM THE FATHER, He will testify of Me."
see? Jesus sends us Holy Spirit but comes from the father EVERLASTING.
the Pope's primacy:
Catholics say that church is built on Peter and that's why Pope is a head of church.
BUT: church is built on the faith of Peter, not on Peter when he said: ''You are the Christ, the Son of the living God'', and on this faith is built the church of Christ and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. who recognized Peter in this words? Jesus Christ, that means rock is not Peter ROck is that faith and that faith recognizes Christ and church is built on Jesus Christ, that means JEsus is the head of Church
also there are gramatical problems:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Y26qPWzTg
today the differences between Eastern Orthodox and ROman Catholic church are too many and too deep:
1. Pope's primacy
2. Fillioque
3. Papal infallibility
4. Primacy of Apostol Peter
5. the first Marian Dogma
6. the second Marian Dogma (which isresembling only in outwardly)
7. Roman Catholic teaching about Purgatory
8. Eucharist without wine and with unleavened? bread
9. Roman Catholic teaching about deliverance (which was the reason of indulgences and one of the reasons of formation of protetestantism)
10. Roman Catholic teaching about the first made sin
11. theological view about the sacrament of confession
12. sacrament of priesthood
13. theological view about sacrament of marriage
14. callendar
15. ccrossing oneself from the left to the right
16. lents
if both Catholic and Orthodox churches were true Jesus was wrong when he said:
''I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not overpower it!''
if the church is devided that means, gates of hell overpoided it.
but church is only one and it's Eastern Orthodox church, it's ancient and there were no reforms and all dogmas are saved in Orthodox church, so listen teaching of holy fathers and come home, to the faith of apostles, to the church which's head is Jesus Christ!
The Church of Rome (Roman Catholic Church) is in schism with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church: the Orthodox Church. In 1054 AD, Rome went independent. Unchecked by any kind of "peer review" by the Eastern Orthodox Patriarchs, Rome's theological innovations proceeded unchecked today.
The Roman Catholic Church tampered and changed the original Creed of the Church (insertion of the Filioque). The Orthodox Church uses the ORIGINAL Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, which does Not have the addition of the "Filioque" added by the Roman Catholic Church.
I once was catholic, and because I do not wish you to go astray I am sharing some info in great hopes/prayers that you shall not choose to be in allegiance to "man" over God...
Jesus IS the Rock, Peter (Greek: pebble).. You all boast of Peter being the 1st "pope" he would very interested in seeing what your church has done to the Truth found in God's Holy Living Word, Exodus 20:4-5 / Matthew 6:6-7 /John 16:23/ 1 Peter 2:9.....Mark 16:16 / Acts 2:38/Matthew 28:20....Ecclesiastes 9:5/ Psalm 115:7 / Acts 2:29-34...Rev. 20:9/2 Peter 3:10 / Malachi 4:1/John 3:16....Matthew 24:27/Rev/ 1:7/ Thess. 4:16....1 Corinthinans 6:1-9, 20 / Proverbs 20:1, 23:29-33/Isaiah 5:22...John 2:9-10/Genesis 1:29 / Genesis 7:1-2...Isaiah 66:15-17/Romans 12:1..Acts 10:9:17 and Acts 10:28.....also in closing Rev. 18:4 Jesus speaking...
Sunday is our "mark" of authority...the church is above the Bible, and the transference of the Sabbath day observance is proof of that fact. Catholic Record, Ontario, London, Sept. 1, 1923
The catholic mirror Sept. 23, 1893
"Halting on crutches of unequal size,One leg by truth supported, one by lies
thus sidle to the goal with awkward pace, Secure of nothing,but to lose the race.
excerpt:
in the present article we propose to investigate carefully a new (and the last) class of proof assumed to convince the Biblical Christan that God had substituted Sunday for Saturday for His worship in the new law, and that the divine will is to be found recorded by the Holy Ghost in apostolic writings.
We are informed that this radical change has found expression, over and over again, in a series of texts in which expression, "the day of the Lord," or the Lord's day." is to be found
The class of texts in the NT, under the title"Sabbath" numbering sixty-one in the Gospels, Acts and Epsitles; and the second class in which "the first day of the week." or Sunday, having been critically examined (the latter class numbering nine [eight]; and having been found not to afford the slightest clue to a change of will on the part of God as to His day of worship by man, we now proceed to examine the third and last class of texts relied on to save the Biblical system from the arraignment of seeking to palm off on the world, in the name of God, a decree for which there is not, the slightest warrant or authority from their teacher, the Bible.
another excerpt pg. 11 of Rome's Challenge
But alas! we are once mired doomed to disappointment. Nine times do we find the Sabbath referred to in the Acts, but it is the Saturday (the old Sabbath). Should our readers desire the proof, we refer them to chapter & verse 15:21; again Acts 16:13, 17:2; 18:4 "And he [Paul] reasoned to the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." Thus the Sabbath (Saturday) from Genesis to Revelation!!! Thus it is impossible to find in the New Testament the slightest interference by the Saviour or His apostles with the Original Sabbath, but on the contrary, an entire acquiescence in the original arrangement; nay, a plenary endorsement by Him, whilst living; and an unvaried, active participation in the keeping of that day and no other by the apostles, for thirty years after His death, as the Acts of the Apostles has abundantly testified to us.
Hence the conclusion is inevitable; viz., that of those who follow the Bible as their guide, the Israelites and Seventh Day Adventists have the exclusive weight of evdience on their side, whilst the Biblical Protestant has not a word in self defense for his substitution of Sunday for Saturday. More anon.
there is plenty more of course, perhaps google for "Romes Challenge"
The Eastern Orthodox Church, whether Russian, Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian, etc., is one Church united in doctrine. It's been called "Roman Catholicism without the additions, Protestantism without the subtractions", and "Catholic, but not Roman, Evangelical, but not Protestant, Orthodox, but not Jewish, not non-denominational, but Prue-denominational.".
The Eastern Orthodox Church is a direct continuation of the early Church in Jerusalem, with a known history of inter communion with other true Christians. Rome was once part of the Church, but unfortunately struck out on its own -- being "the" leading church in the West, and confusing that position to mean "the" leading church of Christianity and the rightful only leader -- leaving the church of the East with its major patriarchates in Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.
Well, the Eastern Church did not disappear. It did not add doctrines to the body of faith received from the apostles (such as the Roman doctrines of Immaculate Conception of Mary, or the Infallibility of the Pope), nor did it subtract from the faith as did the Protestants (the sacraments, the bishops, substitution of Biblical faith for "faith alone"). That Church has continued, becoming called the Eastern Orthodox Church ("orthodox" meaning "right worship" or "right glory")
The Eastern Orthodox worship according to the models found in the Old Testament and the New Testament visions of the heavenly Church, and as they received from earlier generations.
The doctrines -- that Catholics *must believe -- that divided Rome from the Eastern Church:
*The belief that the Pope should be the one-and-only chief bishop of the Church. Until the schism of 1054, the Church considered Rome to be "first among equals", dating from an Ecumenical council after the legalization of Christianity. It had a primacy of honor, not a primacy of ruler ship. Its self-image in the West could not be extended to the East. The Ecumenical Patriarchate, second in the lineup created by Church Councils, is now called "the first chair of Orthodoxy", but it does not have nor claim primacy of ruler ship over the other Orthodox bodies.
* Infallibility of the Pope when speaking "ex cathedral" -- "from the throne". The Eastern Orthodox believe that only Ecumenical Councils, led and guided by the Holy Spirit, are infallible, not a man, however high is office..
* Immaculate Conception of Mary. This is a pious belief gone wrong. The Church has always held Mary in very high regard -- she was with the Apostle John until her death, so the Church knew her well. There is *opinion that perhaps she never actually sinned, and the common belief that she was cleansed from all sin to become the mother of our Lord Jesus, but it's going too far to claim that she had no sin. That would mean her parents would also have had no sin, and so on, and we know that isn't true.
These and many other additions make the Orthodox suspicious of the church of Rome. In my conversion, I came to the conclusion that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the true Church of Christ.
ROMAN CATHOLIC or EASTERN ORTHODOX? Which church is JESUS' TRUE CHURCH? I really need
