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Old 11-30-2008, 08:26 PM
Ambivalent Bittern PJA's Avatar
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Default do Christians who talk about "the Word" know what Gnosticism is?

or realize the book of John and Revelations are gnostic and yet not thrown out of bible?

(go ogle "secret book of John")
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:26 PM
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Oh please. 1 John is the annihilation of the "gnostic" heresies. Gnosticism is a heresy and is satanic, and is not Christian.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:26 PM
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John and Revelaton are not gnostic, and Gnosticism is a heresy that was long ago rejected by the body of Christ. Your information sources are leaning away from Christianity and truth to intellectualism.

GEORGEOUStxTEMPTRESS: YOUR HUMAN RATIONALE IS WHAT LACKS REASON AND SPIRITUAL SENSE AND UNDERSTANDING.
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Old 12-09-2008, 08:26 PM
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I know what Gnosticism is and apparently you do not. None of the Gnostic writings appeared until well into the second century AD. They have all been pr oven to be grossly inaccurate and not even close to being historically or geographically correct. John's writ tings are not Gnostic nor is John a Gnostic. John actually warned about the threat of such Gnosticism 2ND and 3rd John. People do not be fooled by this mans lack of information.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:26 PM
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As CJ said 1st John blasts gnosticism. Its whole purpose is to point out that Gnostic's are incorrect.
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:26 PM
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1) It's "Revelation" - there is no "s" at the end.

2) Actually, your "facts" are back-as swards, my deluded friend. St. John (as clearly spelled-out in his three little Epistles) wrote strongly AGAINST the gnostic heresy (the first real heresy of the Church) when he talked about the fact that the Divine did indeed "become flesh"....

This was written in 2 John to combat the very core idea of Gnosticism (obviously it is YOU that needs an education in the term!)

"Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; any such person is the deceiver and the Antichrist! Be on your guard, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, but may receive a full reward."
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Old 12-21-2008, 08:26 PM
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No one who reads, understands, and believes The Secret book of John could possibly be a christian. That one book correctly refutes every single christian doctrine as being false.
If the secret book of John is heresy, then Jesus was a heretic and so were the apostles.
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:26 PM
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You are asking for logic here. I'll bet you won't get any.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:26 PM
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What the first two (edit: first five) answers said, plus...

Did you ever read Mark chapter 4? I count 9 occurrences where Jesus himself talked of "the word" in that one chapter of the New Testament. I count over 350 verses in the Holy Bible which reference "the word".
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:26 PM
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The secret book of John is not the gospel of John. The SGoJ was written much later.

Revelation or the full title "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" was put in writing by John the Beloved.

Christians for the most part believe in the divinity of Jesus. Many Gnostic texts remove the divinity of Jesus in one manner or another and others claim Jesus stated he was not the Messiah.

This is unacceptable by disciples of Christ.
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:26 PM
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To those touting the Author of Revelation...you do know that Revelation was NOT written by the Apostle John, right? It was written several centuries after Christ and was approved as Holy Canon by the Roman Catholic leaders even though they knew it was new. It was written about overthrowing Rome.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:26 PM
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There is some confusion being sown here.

Revelation & The Secret Book of John?

Secret Book of John was penned about 190-200 AD
Of course there are similar writings before this time.

Revelation
Take great care. Many "eastern" Rite type churches are gnostic in thought set. These are considered HERETICS by Christians.

Wiki article shows that many of the Eastern "rite" churches do not want the Apocalypse to be part of the bible and have worked to denigrate it's validity.

Early views
A number of Church Fathers weighed in on the authorship of Revelation. Justin Martyr avows his belief in its apostolic origin. Irenaeus (178) assumes it as a conceded point. At the end of the 2ND century, we find it accepted at Antioch, by Theophilus, and in Africa by Tertullian. At the beginning of the 3rd century, it is adopted by Clement of Alexandria and by Origen, later by Methodius, Cyprian, and Lactantius. Dionysius of Alexandria (247) rejected it, upon doctrinal rather than critical grounds. Eusebius (315) suspended his judgment, hesitating between the external and internal evidence. Some canons, especially in the Eastern Church, rejected the book, while most others included it.

No matter how many times a person or group tells a lie it will never be the truth.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:26 PM
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it's all new to me
but very interesting

Imagine NO Religion ------------- John Lennon
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