Gnosticism sees salvation as coming through secret knowledge: "In order to free oneself from the inferior material world, one needs nosies, or esoteric spiritual knowledge available to all through direct experience or knowledge (nosies) of God."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
Faith-alone Christians insist that all we need is knowledge about Jesus saving work of dying on the cross. They say we don't really have to carry out works of charity, such as feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, giving clothes to those in rags, tending the sick, or visiting those in prison.
Isn't faith in a knowledge about Jesus that supposedly saves a person really a type of gnosticism?
I thank Chris for stating the faith-alone belief that I'm asking about in this question:
"The only way to be saved and go to heaven and not the eternal lake of fire is by believing in this life that Jesus, who is God, died for our sins on the cross and rose again (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Believe this and you are saved!"
Believe this theological claim and you are saved--no need for baptism, repentance, justice, charity, eating the bread of life, or enduring to the end in the grace of God.
Spiritroaming, wonderful examples of many who fell short with faith alone, including the demons who believed with perfect conviction "that Jesus, who is God, died for our sins on the cross and rose again."
Why do you have to turn something so simple into an intellectual lie.. If you have faith and believe in God.. you will know that faith is a gift from God and as a result from our faith we do good works.
I think you just like to waste time and I would consider looking at what you are really like.. you also sound shallow.
It is short-sighted, and dangerous as such a one could be fooled into many things.
Faith in faith, which is basically what it is, is used wonderfully by those individuals that line their pockets with the sheep's money.
Our Christian faith rests on FACTS contained in scripture. Works are a natural RESULT of true faith.
Faith without works is a dead faith, and such a faith will not be a saving faith.
A person's MIND must be used, and not discarded.
The matter seems clear from James who states that, "Faith without works is dead" (James 2:26). However, some Protestants twist this and state that works naturally follow from true faith. Thus, all man needs is true faith and then good works proceed as a logical consequence.
In many ways, this interpretation does not only show that all Protestants are Gnostic's (for trying to seek truth through scripture on their own despite the admonition of 2 Peter 1:20), but also that they are subtly denying original sin. This seems to be a tough view to hold given the Lutheran view on grace, but in essence protestants do deny this sin because they deny that one who has true faith can still fall. Did not Adam and Eve have faith? They spoke with God. They even saw Him. What about Paul? Have they read him: "And if I should have prophesy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could move mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." (1 Corinthians 13: 2). Of course, the best scriptural evidence comes from the Gospels from those who have the most faith in Jesus Christ as Son of God: the demons whom He expels.
"And behold they [the demons] cried out saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" (Matt 8: 29). What faith! Not only do they profess that Jesus is the Son of God, but they also have a profound knowledge of the Old Testament because they also profess belief in the final judgment. And to think! Peter only professes that Christ is the Son of God in Matthew 16: 16-- eight chapters later! How come Jesus didn't make the demons the rock on which He built His Church? Oh yeah...good works don't necessarily flow from faith and faith alone does not save man.
I think a lot of Christians misinterpret the whole 'not by works but by faith alone' statement. At another part in the Bible, Jesus says that a man who does good but doesn't 'see' (worship) him is to be admired over a person who 'sees' him but does not help his fellow man.
The 'not by works' statement warns us against doing 'good works' merely for show instead of out of a genuine desire to help. Faith in forgiveness alone, and good works alone do not reap spiritual rewards. Only genuine faith/love and good works done in a spirit of true faith and love will prove of spiritual benefit.
That's an interesting question. While you are correct to demonstrate that there is a sort of detachment-from-the-world in both so la Fidel and gnostic thinking, the primary difference lies in serology.GU
Faith is more than just knowledge, and indeed doesn't require much "secret knowledge" - it is rather an emotional and spiritual response to grace.
Gnosis, on the other hand, can exist entirely within the mind of the gnostic and may have nothing whatsoever to do with emotional matters or belief. While the difference between knowledge and belief is generally that knoweldge does not compel action while faith does (something reflected in the Catholic and Orthodox mindsets that require works in imitation of Christ as a way to "feed" one's faith), within sola fide there is the belief that an attempt to do works would appear to reflect a lack of faith because one is trusting in works instead of faith alone.
So, sola fide is not gnosticism, but both do share detachment.
it takes faith to have a relationship in the spiritual realm with our Creator.
We don't have to carry out works of charity?
James said faith without works is dead.
Lastly, the Greek word "Gino's: is translated "to know" in the English KJV. This refers to intimacy, sharing knowledge and feelings, trust and reliance. There is MORE to Christianity than a form of Gnosticism.
Ephesians 2
Made Alive in Christ
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions?it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith?and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God? 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do
So, it isn't that works have no place in the life of a Christian. But, it is the gospel, Christ's death, burial and Resurrection that redeemed us to the Father. Without that sacrifice for sin, we are without salvation. Works are an outflow of a life of a Christian. We were created in Christ, to do good things that the Father has for us. Gnostic beliefs were more about denying a material world and just focusing on the spiritual. We are not in that category, I think, because we do be live we are a tribune being: spirit, soul and body and that we endeavor to walk in a way that is in the world but not of the world. Of course, we are to give, to serve, to love in this world, not deny it's existence or become so heavenly minded that we are no earthly good.
John 15 :1-6 "1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."
Verse 1 says that one is part of the vine...an individual is part of the Body of Christ..IE Christian (accepted Jesus into their heart as their Lord and Savior) and yet if they do not produce fruit (IE do good works) they will be cut off!
Or just look at 1 Tim 5:8 where Paul is speaking to Timothy about the behavior of believers where "If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."
Is an unbeliever saved? So, someone who believes and has faith (therefore saved) but does not take care of his immediate family is worse off than an unbeliever...unsaved.
Nope, you may receive salvation but you can most definitely reject it (by failing to do good works) even after accepting Jesus into your heart. Therefore Sola Fide (Faith alone) is umbilical because good works(done by the Grace of God) is an integral part of salvation.
Bruce,
I understand hat you are saying, but have to disagree with you as to the form of heresy protestantism falls into. And make no mistake about it, John Paul the Greta's encyclical on ecumenism not withstanding, they are all heretics.
I think the main form is closer to simple, Arianism, which we addressed in the fourth century.
My reason is that Gnosicism emphasizes the spiritual realm to the point of denying the reality of this material realm. As Catholics we kl now that Jesus was fully human and fully God, we don't argue about this we accept it. Gnositcisim denies God's human nature on more than one level -- to deny the materila is to deny the humansees of Jesus and the importance relevenace of Jesus's humanity.
If anything I see the protestants dening Chirstas divinity more than his humaness in multiple ways. First of course tehy take a literal interpartaion of a greek translation of what was spoken and later recited in aramiac, and understand it literally. It's true thtey study the greek and quibble of the meaning of greek words, but why? this tendancy coupled with not having the benfit of church history and tradition to fill in the blanks. This includes early homilies and commentaries some of whom knew persoanally and preaced with and were mentored by the original apsotles, etc. The poiut of this is they can come up with an idea that says that Jesus had brothers and sisters, which of course is completely untrue, there is no historical, spitirtual or biblical support for such a crack-pot idea. What this idea does though is make Jesus more human and thus less devine, this is Arianism.
Then there is their insulting, irreveant, disrespectful, and repugnanat views on Jesus's mother. And you had better believe that Jeuss himself feels the same way about these views as I have just described. To describe Our LOrd -- God's mother, blessed mother -- as just another jewish girl, somone who had she said no, God would have just gone onto the next jewish girl, to insult and defile the liveing tabernacle of God in the ways that they do; is once again to deny the divinity of God -- this is Arianism not Gnosticism.
The idsea that the Bible is the Word of God and to worship the Holy Scripture, when we of course know that Jesus is the Word of God again reeks of Arianism. I am sure there is more eveidence.
Then there is also, of course Iconoclasm area heresey we identified in the 7th century,
This heresy arose when a group of people known as iconoclasts (literally, "icon smashers") appeared, who claimed that it was sinful to make pictures and statues of Christ and the saints, despite the fact that in the Bible, God had commanded the making of religious statues (Ex. 25:18?20; 1 Chr. 28:18?19), including symbolic representations of Christ (cf. Num. 21:8?9 with John 3:14).
So, no I don't see protestans as Gnostics quite the contrary having been a memebr of the calvary chapple movement and lived with othere memebrs, having been an epsicopalian, I find their heresy much closer to asrianism. They really have no understaning of teh spritual realm, they are rather flat and human in that regard, they have of course no tradion of mysticism, and in fact do not understand the word, or missunderstand it in human terms. Of course they have no tradion of the Eucahisrt or the other sacraments which brings us in caontact with the spritual realm. Heck they deny the kingdom of heaven by not beloinging to the kingdom of heaven on earth the church that Jesus founded. This of course again denies teh divinity of christ in favopr of His humaness. No they are much more arians than gnostics.
I need to reiterate something. The vile way in which they treat Our Lord's mother, I am certain does not go unnoticed by Jesus. I am certain they willl face consequences for this. The way they speak of Blessed Mother is disgusting. I don't think we have to wonder what her son thinks of this. What man could pretend to love me and yet say such vile disugsting, untrue, repupgnat things about my mother. Remeber Jesus is fully God and fully human.
Better for thses "fundies" these followers of Luther to keep their mouths shut about her. Do you really think He doesn't notice this?
Hail Mary
Full Full of Grace ...
Our Lord is within you ... blessed are you among women and
blessed is the fruit of your womb,
JESUS
Holy Mary, Mother of, Mother of Mother of GOD
Please pray for us
sinners
now and at the hour of our death, amen.
Judaism and Christianity, and almost all pagan systems, hold that the soul attains its proper end by obedience of mind and will to the Supreme Power, i.e. by faith and works, it is markedly peculiar to Gnosticism that it places the salvation of the soul merely in the possession of a quasi-intuitive knowledge of the mysteries of the universe and of magic formula indicative of that knowledge.
The Gnostic Saviour, therefore, is entirely different from the Christian one. For the Gnostic Saviour does not save. Gnosticism lacks the idea of atonement. There is no sin to be atoned for, except ignorance be that sin. Nor does the Saviour in any sense benefit the human race by vicarious sufferings. Nor, finally, does he immediately and actively affect any individual human soul by the power of grace or draw it to God. He was a teacher, he once brought into the world the truth, which alone can save. As a flame sets naphtha on fire, so the Saviour's light ignites predisposed souls moving down the stream of time. Of a real Saviour who with love human and Divine seeks out sinners to save them, Gnosticism knows nothing.
Gnosticism deserves attention as showing what mention dispositions Christianity found in existence, what obstacles it had to overcome to maintain its own life; but "means of mental progress it never was".
well Chris believes opposite of what the bible teaches in clear language, that we are NOT saved by faith alone. He is a vehicle the devil uses to make the power of the word null and void. He really needs prayers desperately. faith alone is a heresy, a non biblical teaching, it is a man made lie, who is the father of lies? Satan, so that is where it is coming from. pray for those in his grip.
seemingly so Bruce, the lie of faith alone,so la Scripture and once saved always saved are dangerous.
i could relate the lies to the truth from the bible, the writings in the catacombs,the writings of the early church fathers and numerous other proofs against these sad lies, however i have done that numerous times and i just pray that the light of Christ will reach our separated brothers and sisters in Christ.
interestingly just to show why they are lies, look in a phone book directory to see how many protestant Church's there are, each with different teachings, beliefs and structures. you cant tell me the holy spirit is the author of this confusion, the spirit of truth does not mislead people into 33,000 denominations. whilst they fervently love the lord and have some truth from the spirit they do not have the fullness of Christ in the Eucharist and the fullness of truth from the holy spirit, how can they if they can barely even agree on one point from scripture.
this self interpretation or as you refer to it as gnosticism is plainly wrong and not the will of our lord who prayed that we all may be one.
I am always leery of any "all or nothing" approach to an issue. I believe, a deeply held faith in the gospel, is the primary requirement for salvation. The bible is so specific on this issue in so many different places that I could not possibly think otherwise. "Your salivations come through faith, and not of works, lest any man should boast." Romans 10:8-10 speaks to it also.
Now the apostle James will tell us that faith without works is dead. I do not see disharmony in James' statement either. When we are born again, like Jesus told Nicodemus he must be, we become spiritual babes with little knowledge. As we grow, if the salvation process is real and only God knows for absolutely sure, good works should follow. We call these things the fruit of the spirit.
We are told that we can know a tree by the fruit it bears and to some that means they can figure out if a person is christian or not. As for me, who is and who isn't a christian is up to God to figure out.
I will pass the gospel message, I will speak to the death, resurrection and atoning power of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross and I will call for a commitment to be born again but I will not second guess, I plant, the Holy Spirit waters and makes ones faith and understanding grow.
A faith filled person that has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior will grow but depending on the lessons we have to learn, the trials we need to go through to learn these lessons, it may not be obvious to many that we are even dealing with a christian.
Being saved means just that. It means we are forgiven, it does not mean we have attained a degree of perfection. The apostle Paul said something like this: " Those things I know to do, I don't and those things I know not to do, I do." So you see we are in good stead but if hypocrisy is to not play a role in our christian walk, we must be found trying.
Bruce, was Mother Teresa saved? You really don't know. Because of all of her good works you would assume so but how can you know her heart, how can you know she ever committed her life to Jesus Christ. Maybe she was only committed to that guy in Rome. I know she had issues that bothered her before she died and I would like to believe that I will get to meet her someday, but I really don't know. Nor does anyone else.
It is certainly true that the virtue of Faith can exist alone on this earth, namely without Hope and Charity. However, this is a very abnormal situation, given that generally in justification, as in baptism, the three theological virtues are infused at the same time. Furthermore, such faith without hope and charity is very imperfect and very unstable, liable to be lost all together, because it is dead, without the life of sanctifying grace. It is or this reason that the Council of Trent teaches that,
faith, unless hope and charity be added to it, neither unites one perfectly with Christ, nor makes him a living member of his body. For this reason it is most truly said that "faith without works is dead" and is of not profit.?
However, the fact that the theological virtue of charity exists alone in heaven is neither abnormal nor imperfect. It is, to the contrary, a sign of the perfection of the state of the blessed. There is no possibility of the theological virtue of faith, for faith is the assent to that which we cannot see, on the authority of God who reveals. But in heaven the blessed see everything in God, including all the truths and dogmas of the Faith. They are self-evident, in virtue of the beatific vision, and there is no longer any possibility of faith. Likewise for hope, which is the assurance of obtaining a future difficult good, based upon the Divine Omnipotence.
The blessed in heaven possess God Himself, and consequently are filled with every good. There is no further good to long for, no good to hope for. It is not possible for them to have Hope.
However, the poor souls in purgatory have all the three theological virtues and necessarily so. If they did not have the theological virtue of charity they would have been condemned to hell. Yet despite their certitude of one day doing so, they do not at the present time see or possess God. They consequently have the infused supernatural virtues of faith and hope, by which they believe what they will one day see, and hope for what they will one day possess.
Is faith-alone Christianity a type of gnosticism?
