Hinduism: what does it mean by saying the world itself is an illusion ?
now I have this body it is real ..made of matter ..similarly my room is also real only made of matter ...
so how is the world an illusion since the world itself is made of matter ?
or am I not understanding it well ?
can someone explain
mu hammed : thanks a lot ..but this is what I fail to understand ...how can we just be like projections ?
in the sense is the world not real ..like how to say..HM ..it is made of matter ..
we have Pancho boots :earth,water,fire,air ,ether ..are these not real ?..in what sense are they not real ?
Yamunaithuraivan : thanks a lot for those links I've been looking for them for quiet sometime now
Maya : was expecting you to answer ..
OK yeah so that is what is the doubt ...in that clip what is real and what is Maya is seen clearly
but how can it be proved in our case as to which is real and which is Maya ?
when you say the world itself is unreal what is the basis for that ? we see in the clip both real and unreal are shown..but in our how to determine weather not we are in Maya ? like in the clip when Neo is shown the real world everything around him seems destroyed ..and that was itself the proof ..what would it be in our case?
Aryan princess:happy new year too u too..it does not matter neither your body nor ur name is real so
happy new year
the part of the vedas that talk of the oneness in everything ..that is advaitha ..that is called bheda shruthi
the part of the vedas that talk of differences ..jivathma is different from paramathma ..etc
eg i will give ..vedas say :
salkalvevam brhama
kavedam brahma
sarvam khaluvidham brahmam
tatjalaan
everything u see with naked eye is brahmam! ..there is no difference !
yet again vedas say this :
bhokta,bhogyam,preritaranchancha matwa
ksharampradhanam amritaksharam haraha
ksharathmana ishate devaekah
bogta,bhogyam,prereta..there is something that is always enjoyed by me ..
i enjoy eating a fruit ..who enjoys ..the jivathma..what is enjoyed ..the fruit..so shastra here
says bhogta ..is the soul that enjoys
bhogyam is the flower,fruit,chandan ,food all these are enjoyed
bhogyam whatever is enjoyed by me is known as bhogyam ..i enjoy
i am known as bhogtha ..
now is not differnetiating or not ?..
just now we said everything is brahmam ..
now everything is different ...
is this no
yam athmanaveda
yasa aathmashariram
yam athmanaveda
yasa prithavi shariram
yam prithivina veda
yasa athmashariram
this jivathma is the body of paramathma
but the jivathma never recongnises the paramtham as master
the prithivi is part and parcel of paramathma ..unfortunately the prithavi never realises the master ..
it goes on it adds and lists innumarable objects and tell that everything is the body of paramathma
but unfortunately non of us realise that the paramathma is the soul and we are all part and parcel of paramathma
prithivi or jivathma ..all are part and parcel or supreme
so now we are trying to connect to both ..there were 3 real things ...chit ,achit and ishwara
3 distinct identities ..now we need to connect to 2 identities with one identity
et us connect chit and achit to paramathma !
let us connet it thru wire or rope ..here we are connected thru shareera and athma ..
when i was walking someone called me oh krishna
so i turned and asked him yes??temme
u called me
u called me krishna ..i turned my face
did u call my body as krishna or did u call my soul as krishna?
i questioned him
immediately the person stops talking and finds out that i am insane
and there is no point in continuing the dicussion
but the question is valid
the body is not called krishna since it cannot realise if it krishna ,rama or govinda
after prana has left will it ever turn its head ?no!
it will be called corpse
because the athama who is inside has left
so when i called krishna was it the athma that recognised or the body?
only jivathma recognised and turned !
unfortunatley athma cannot turn ..athma does not have limbs to turn ..it had no eyes to turn ..it cannot hear
it has only knowledge embedde in it ..with that knowledge it realises
recognises ..whereas to perform it needs body
athma recognizes
body performs
atma and body are intimately related to each other that the athma thinks and the body executes
so executive portion is with body but thought process is w
with body but thought process is with jeevathma
when i called krishna as krishna ..he turned
even tho i call him as krihna only his athma realises
his body turns ..i do not differentiate the 2
whetever i name the body it also stands for the soul
whatever i call the soul it also stands for the body! is it true or not
even tho body is different from soul..i give a call to person ..i do not differentiate between the 2
it is taken as same because of the intimate relation between body and soul
when the shastra says everything is brahmam
do not see anyhting second to brahmam it says so ..because everything is the body of brahmam.so it only one brahmam that is to be recognized
if i recognize one brahmam it flows automatically to all part and parcel of brahmam
if we recognize that paramthama and jeevathma is related in body soul bhava ..because the brahhmam is realized
if soul is realized body is realized
when i call body athma recognises ..the body turns so they work in close relationship
why not i term them as one and the same ..that is when abheda steps in ..
bheda and abheda both play into each other because of shareerathma bhava
my parmathama is my soul and i am the shareera of the paramthama
brahma said to rama "jagathsarvam shareeram te"
this entire universe is your body
if everything is my body then whatever name given to the body is applicable to parathma too
whatever name is given to parmathma is applicable to body too
I don't know as Hinduism, but I can answer it as Islamic point of view about when Islam say it's all imaginary. Only Allah Set. is real.
We all are projected image over a 7 dimensional screen of nothingness. Like you see a picture moving but it the image that is moving not the cloth of canvas.
also like pixel of computer screen just go on and off when a image is moving over computer screen.
Edit
There is a rigid, totally static dimensional fabric all around in the created zone of this universe, acts as a canvas, nothing can move or take any action except only in present moment of time, that is passing right now. This present moment of time facilitates us to keep moving and taking action, that canvas of screen where we are projected, is so rigid that we cannot move, or take any action one moment before or after the present moment of time,Only dimension of time acts as lubricant to facilitate motion.
We as a Muslim believe that this done just for a test run of our Original self that is still zero meter untouched, its duplicate copy is projected throw original over the projector screen of this universe, to be test for real after life where the eternal life will start and we will get our real original self to pass the real life after death, either in Paradise or in Hell according to good or bad deeds our imaginary self did, during the test run on behalf of original self.
Everything that you see in this world, even your body is an illusion. Let me give you an example: there is a wall, once you draw a river, plants, trees, and other pictures on that wall, you won't see the wall. But actually, wall the the thing Thai hold the picture. The same way, Brahm is holding all the things in the universe; however, due to Nature (Prakruti), you don't see it. There is a saying "Brahm sat yam, Jagata (world) is Mithra. It is bit difficult to understand. I suggest you to read "Upanishada" or any thing that is having contact from them.
Life on this earth is temporary and transient. Everything is Anita or impermanent. In such a situation, it is all an illusion destined to soon be a distant memory. The riches, the relationships, the things you cling on to are all illusive -- meant to distract you from what is real which is your Atma. So stop focusing on the Illusion or Maya and focus on the reality which is Atma. All you take with you is your Alaya Vijyana or your Karmic storehouse. Therefore, do not get attached to material things or this material world but always make your spirituality the forefront of your life, your thoughts, your words, actions .. in short your karma. Brahman and Atman are what is real and lasting -- all else is illusive and transient.
I am an Agni-myst and I think,
it is a collective spiritual and religious advise that teaches,
it is of no use to try to find the existential truth in the outside world,
unless and until one does not realize the existential truth of the own self that lies inside the being.
You are right about telling the truth of the physical realm of the existence,
but this is not the end of the existence
there are other realms of the existence
that are higher, more existential and real than the physical realm
and in this ascending series
the realm of the absolute consciousness
is being considered to be the realm of the ultimate existential truth or eternity.
I think, the world in the physical realm is said to be an illusion,
because the material things comes, goes and undergoes constant changes,
whereas the consciousness associated with all the material things
which is actually a part and parcel of the absolute consciousness
remains the same through out or eternal.
"Hinduism: what does it mean by saying the world itself is an illusion ?"
It means they are in illusion themselves. So how can they arrive at the truth?
Tattwa is three in number. Tattwa thrum -
1 Chit
2 ac hit
3 Bhagawan Vasudevan
All the above are Anthia in nature. They exist eternally and are Gotham.
PLEASE GO THRU THE LINKS AND THE RECOMMENDED BOOKS IF YOU ARE INTERSETED TO KNOW WHAT OUR ACHARYAS HAVE SAID
Books on Upanishads and Brahmasutra http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/books/books.html
Vedanta Sutras (Sacred Books of the East Series)
by George Thibaut, South Asia Books: 1988. [$28.00]
Comment: Contains translations of Sankara's and Ramanuja's commentaries on the Brahma Sutras of Badarayana. Ramanuja's commentary is known as the Sribhashya. Thibaut's analytical introduction is particularly insightful. This is the standard translation of both of these commentaries.
Advaita and Visistadvaita
by S.M. Srinivasa Chari, South Asia Books: reprinted 1998. [$26.00]
Comment: This is an outstanding analysis of the philosophical dispute between the Visishtadvaita and Advaita schools of Vedanta. The author bases his work on Vedanta Desika's Satadushani ("100 objections"), which he studied in the traditional manner from several scholars in India.
Well, just because it is made of matter how does that become real?
I just want to show this clip to get a better understanding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnEYHQ9dscY
How do you define real?
Even in dream you have certain experiences, so how do you know that dream is false and this is real?
Why can't it be that that is real and this is fake?
All this goes to show that none of this world is real as such.The only reality is that you exist in all of them.So the absolute reality that you exist, others are all an illusion due to Maya
Edit : Okay,I'll try to explain.Normally speaking you have three states of experience - Normal waking state, Dream state and Deep sleep state.Now, in all these you're in different frames of reality.So we're not sure what is real and what isn't.If you closely observe, there is one common thing - you're there in all these states and you experience them.So, you exist in all these states.So your existence is independent of any frame of reality.This is what we call as fourth state which is the absolute state or reality.This world is not the absolute reality.It is only relative version of reality but certainly not the highest order of reality.So this mere existence is what we define as the absolute.You may call it nothingness or consciousness or Brahman but that is the absolute.This is what Vedanta tries to deduce like E=MC^2, we have "Aham Brahman as mi" or "I'm the Brahman/Atma/Consiousness/Nothingness" equation..Lil
You are not understanding it well. A distinction is made between absolutely real and empirically real. Brahman is absolutely real because he cannot be ablated by anything. The world however is empirically real. From the absolute standpoint there is no relativity, the values are absolute. Hence when the world is called an illusion it is so called from the standpoint of the absolute. The world is not experienced in the realization of Brahman, as the Upanishads say that there is no diversity here. Only the absolute reality of the world is denied not its empirical reality.
Please read Advaitamoda which is a refutation of Sri Ramanuja's Mahasiddhanta portion of his Sri Bhashya, done by Vasudev Abhyankar Sastri, an eminent Advaitin. The work has been translated into English by Michael Comans.
The philosophy is not so easy to understand.Your body is made of not only matter but spirit also.With out spirit,body will become dead body.It is here one should try to see the difference between Human body and room.Hence your body should not be compared with room .Both appear to be real but in fact they are illusion because, body is not body but of,senses,mind,intelligence,matter and your consciousness.This consciousness is spirit.Room is also not real because,it is made of cement,sand ,steel etc.Once it is demolished,perception of room will vanish.So also world.The word "World" includes earth or planetary body like it including it s countries and their inhabitants.Earth also an illusion because it has mineral,ores ,fuel like coal.If a mineral is taken out of earth,mineral is identified as per it s attribution or quality.Not as earth.Same will be in the of planetary system.Read as many as books possible.Your doubt will be cleared.
As far as the world is concerned, it is one of the five subject matter dealt in the Bhagavad Gita..
Isvara (the Supreme Lord), Iva (the living entity), Prakrit (nature), Kala (eternal time) and karma (activity) are all explained in the Bhagavad-git. Out of these five, the Lord, the living entities, material nature and time are eternal. The manifestation of Prakrit may be temporary, but it is not false. Some philosophers say that the manifestation of material nature is false, but according to the philosophy of Bhagavad-git or according to the philosophy of the Vaisnavas, this is not so. The manifestation of the world is not accepted as false; it is accepted as real, but temporary. It is likened unto a cloud which moves across the sky, or the coming of the rainy season, which nourishes grains. As soon as the rainy season is over and as soon as the cloud goes away, all the crops which were nourished by the rain dry up. Similarly, this material manifestation takes place at a certain interval, stays for a while and then disappears. Such are the workings of prakrti. But this cycle is working eternally. Therefore prakrti is eternal; it is not false. The Lord refers to this as "My prakrti." This material nature is the separated energy of the Supreme Lord, and similarly the living entities are also the energy of the Supreme Lord, although they are not separated but eternally related. So the Lord, the living entity, material nature and time are all interrelated and are all eternal. However, the other item, karma, is not eternal. The effects of karma may be very old indeed. We are suffering or enjoying the results of our activities from time immemorial, but we can change the results of our karma, or our activity, and this change depends on the perfection of our knowledge. We are engaged in various activities. Undoubtedly we do not know what sort of activities we should adopt to gain relief from the actions and reactions of all these activities, but this is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita
It is also explained that the Paramatma, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is living in everyone's heart as isvara, as the controller, and that He is giving directions for the living entity to act as he desires. The living entity forgets what to do. First of all he makes a determination to act in a certain way, and then he is entangled in the actions and reactions of his own karma. After giving up one type of body, he enters another type of body, as we put on and take off clothes. As the soul thus migrates, he suffers the actions and reactions of his past activities. These activities can be changed when the living being is in the mode of goodness, in sanity, and understands what sort of activities he should adopt. If he does so, then all the actions and reactions of his past activities can be changed. Consequently, karma is not eternal. Therefore we stated that of the five items (isvara, jiva, prakrti, time and karma) four are eternal, whereas karma is not eternal.
http://vedabase.net/bg/introduction/en2
This illusion of multiplicity is created by the veiling power of the one (the Supreme Consciousness). This veiling power is called Maya Shakti, or Maya.
world itself is an illusion :: sanskrit equilant jagat midhya
i try to provide you the teachings of sri aadi shankaracharya regarding jagat midhya brahman satyam
The word Jagat embraces in itself this entire world, this cosmos. All that which is or can be an 'object' of our knowledge. It includes not only the gross but also the subtle 'objects'. The thoughts, emotions, the energy all come under this word 'Jagat'. That which is near or far, inside or outside, now or later, good or bad everything is part of this Jagat. This word has been described as reffering to that which is 'Jayate gachati iti jagat', i.e. that which is born & dies is jagat. Birth & death are movements in time. That which is in time constantly changes, there is a constant flux. Something starts this process of activation & manifestation of time and thus we see this dynamic flux. A realm of experience presents itself in front of us. What exactly starts this process is a different matter, but the point here is that all what is thus brought about is ultimately transient, is not ultimately there. It is comparable to being in a dream world. Something activates the process of dreaming, and when it does get activated we see a realm of experience which is not ultimately there. Mithya is that which is not there in all three periods of time. That which had a birth at a particular time and that which will certainly die at some point of time. It is there in this present moment, because of some reason - known or unknown. The above aphorism of 'Jagat Mithya' thus implies that all what is available for experience is transient.
Mithya also implies that which does not have the capacity to give us that which we basically seek. It is certainly beautiful,in fact very beautiful, it is also true that 'objects' of the world alone are useful for our worldly needs & purposes, but at the same time this is also a fact that we basically remain where we were. It is like eating a dream food, with which we never satiate our hunger. However much we eat the dream food, we will still remain basically hungry. Whatever we have sought in this world may have helped our life to get comfortable & organised, but has certainly not helped us in eliminating the fundamental desire 'to seek' something more. Like hunger the seeking still remains as it is. The only difference is that it now manifests differently. That which is Mithya does not have any independent existence, thus it is not really dependable, for the simple reason that it itself is perishable. What ever our heart basically seeks will never be got from this Jagat. That is the implication of this sutra. It is something to be seen in a detached way & not taking too seriously. Whatever happens in the world never really matters, knowing this a person should not plan to aggrandise & enjoy, he should rather serve & give. This philosophical tenet, which is a fact of life provides us a logic & basis for our religious values, culture & even the real goal of life.
Brahman is the all pervasive life principle, consciousness. Not the conditioned consciousness which manifests at the level of brain, but 'that' which exists before & inspite of the manifestation too. Not 'consciousness of something', but the very conscious principle as such. Contrary to what some people believe that 'life' is a product of some chemistry, the Upanishads thunder that Consciousness is that which isthe ultimate truth, the timeless & transcendental reality. It exists first and matter follows after. This is not only what the scriptures reveal, but also what is logical too. If we look at matter - the atoms, the electron, proton etc then we find that these things are so perfectly created & organised that there has to be some intelligence working. That which existed before to have brought about such an orderly & beautiful creation has to be a conscious entity. We can never imagine the whole process getting started with lifeless, inert matter. Consciousness alone has to be the first & eternal reality. Rest is created, and is thus perishable. That is what this sutra reveals. Brahma Satyam. The word satya means that which exists in all the three periods of time. Past, present & future. That which transcends time, and is thus timeless. That which exists at all times, that which cannot be effaced by time. Consciousness is that which not only exists at all times but also at all places. It exists as the very truth of all that is. It is the atma of everything - living or non-living things. It is our basic essence, our truth too. That is the God which we all worship.
Exactly, how can the world be illusion, if I live on it and people have lived for thousands of years, and its age is billions of years? How can the world be illusion, if it provides food, air, water for our sustenance? If I want to live, learn and enjoy and suffer pain, how can I and my feelings be illusion?
Illusion(Mithra) means something unreal, looks like existing but doesn't exist. But the Sun, stars, our pains, taste/senses, our mind seems to be real and existing . Hence, Maya cannot mean Illusion. Maya can only mean something UN-cognizable and puzzling.
If World is illusion, then can this make Brahman, the creator of the world an illusion?? Doesn't this conclude that the Brahman, the maker of Illusion, is a fraud/crook?? Then, doesn't this contradict the
medic description of Brahman as the personification of Satyam, Janean and Anandam ? Then, doesn't this make Vedas lose its authenticity?? [To Banzi, If multiplicity is illusion and if it comes from that One Supreme Reality, then how can that One be real?? Aren't you contradicting?? ]
Maya in the Vedas, means the unknowable awe and wonder in the World that makes our body/mind/senses lose to it.
Maya, according to Vedas, is the magnificent, grand power/will/Leela of the Lord/Brahman. If, just thinking of our star, the Sun with 5 Million Kelvins, is bewildering , then Lord of Vedas is with an Effulgence of 1000 Suns, must be a great Maya (His own OmniPotence!.)
(Forms of) Matter is temporary, the sanskrit word for it is a-nithyam. Temporariness is not illusion. Examples: Just because the flower dies out in the evening, it doesnt mean that flower is unreal or illusion. The flower looked so beautiful and fragrant and took time to blossom, don't we see them and enjoy them. It's life is temporary, but it's presence is/was real. Nebulae were real, we have stars, planets born out of them. So, the life/nature of Nebula was temporary, but if it had been illusory, how do these solar systems exist now? Just because the food is eaten, doesnt mean food is illusion, It served the purpose of your hunger. So, both food and hunger were real. If you think food is illusion, just starve for a day or two, man will your hunger be solved?? No. So, everything is real.
P.S:
Amit: If the wall disappears on covering it with paintings, why don't you try banging into that wall?? You will realize, that wall still exists even if it is covered and your bleeding/pain is also real (you may need an 'Real' ice pack later).
Guys : World is illusion, we jivas are illusion. Stop eating and transfer your bank accounts to the needy (who thinks need is real!).
'Jagat Mithya' is Sankara's own illogical Aphorism. Maya is the only word found in the vedas, but Maya doesnt not mean mithyaa.
The Bhagavad-Gita is the epic / story that narrate the teaching of God himself to Arjun who is just an ordinary human being like us. The circumstances of Arjun are our own. Knowledge is available but the problem is to succeed to use this knowledge and learning to take good decisions in our life.
Krishna (God) explains to us via Arjun that we cannot foresee the future in the present. The best way to work our possible actions and decisions is on the basis of our karma and drama. In other works, we take decisions and act on the basis of our conscience that should be fair and just.
Krishna explains to Arjun that taking actions and decisions on this basis is the best way to sort out difficult scenarios and circumstances. This relieves us from our duty and we can die peacefully since we do not have to blame ourselves for any wrong decision and so on. We just did what was possible according to our conscience, available knowledge, help and learning.
The Bhagavad-Gita contains another important teaching. It describes God itself. Many of us have thought umpteen times that why God does not come to help us, or why God does not kill the wrong doers, crimes, etc. Krishna said that the Lord is you, me, your imagination, your enemies, your friends, relationships, mom, dad and everything you can see, imagine, and own and so on. God is just the universe itself, the evolutionary process where the fittest survive by killing the unfit, the inherent animal trait of loving someone and then with time start to disgust the loved one for another one and so on.
Krishna describes God as everything, including the universe itself. God is this universe that is cyclical (big-bang ? expansion ? contraction to a state before the big bang- big bang again). This demarcates Hinduism as being thought to be pantheism to pantheism. This means that God is not just the universe but also something or the force that oversees itself or projects itself in the form of this cyclical universe.
In Hinduism, God is described as Brahman and is defined in the Rig Veda as the inexplicable. God has been named according to the perception of the particular person. For example, the trinity represent the basic mechanism of nature ? creation, destruction, reproduction and maintenance.
Shiva ? Destruction
Vishnu ? maintenance
Brahma ? creation
Shiva / Shakti or matter / energy ? reproduction.
Another person may think of shiv / shakti as electron, Vishnu as proton and Brahma as neutron. As such, everything in this universe is God itself represented by various Godheads in a hierarchical manner. I may assume that 10 avatars of Vishnu were developed in purans (stories, poetic phrases, etc) to depict the evolutionary process that Darwin explained in the 1800s.
As such, Krishna describe that our souls as the only thing that is in this universe will remain or merge with him after all this illusion / universe is destroyed ultimately to give way for another big bang. The physical attachment and emotional attachment are all temporary attachment that we have with our surrounding. Krishna said to Arjun to forget all attachment and guide himself through his karma and dharma. This will help him to attain live a righteous life where he can attain liberation after he dies since he will have no attachment or any kind of regret, vengeance and so on which will bind him to this earthly bondage. Hence, he can break the chains of the reincarnation process that binds us in this earthly bondage.
Read: http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/maya/
The Ramayana describes the path of Ram, Sita, Laxman, Hanuman, etc, and represent the ideals that we should follow. The characters in Ramayana follow the same path, that is, of karma and dharma. The Bhagavad-Gita, similarly, gives us the teachings on how to guide ourselves. Nonetheless, everything depends on the actual implementation of these teachings in our lives. History says that we are inherently evolved to let our emotions to overcome our karma and dharma. Only few lucky ones have been able to liberalise them fully from the curiosities, obscurities and the attachment of this world.
that which you are calling matter and world, try to define it..and do so from the point of view of 'quantum physics' and other relevant portions of 'science'..
Hinduism: what does it mean by saying the world itself is an illusion ?
