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Old 08-24-2010, 10:15 PM
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Default Abrogation in Quran? Ok or not OK?

according to these verses:

6:115
Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words.


10:64
There is no changing the Words of Allah.

18:27
And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of thy Lord. There is none who can change His words.


but in these verses:

2:106
Such of our revelations as We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring (in place) one better than it or like thereof. Know not that Allah is able to do all things?

16:101
And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah NorthThest what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:15 PM
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1. Changing the God's word and
2. God giving a temporary order and later giving a permanent law

Do you really think there is contradictions in these two aspects?
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:15 PM
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We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?
2:106

When We substitute one revelation for another and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages) they say "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.
16:101

Question... Is Qur'an a mere copy from previous books? It was with Divine(God)'s Wisdom Prophet Muhammad (saw) can't read nor write.

It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

Archangel Gabrail(as) commanded Muhammad (saw) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned". "Read", He replied, "I am not learned". "Read", He replied, "I am not learned"

Then he received the very 1st revelation from Allah.


"Read in the name of your Lord who created, created man from a clot. Read, for your Lord is most Generous, Who teaches by means of the pen, teaches man what he does not know."
Qur'an 96: 1-5

Jesus said (according to the Bible)-

"I still have many things to tell you, but

you can't handle them now.

But when the Friend comes,

the Spirit of the Truth, he will take you

by the hand

and guide you into all the truth there is. He won't draw attention to himself, but will make sense out of what is about to happen and, indeed, out of all that I have done and said. He will honor me; he will take from me and deliver it to you.

John 16:12-14 (The Message)
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:15 PM
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Translation is always a problem. Another problem is picking the verse on something which actually has another verse(s) that clarify the meaning.

The abrogated verse(s) were not included in Quran anymore. This mean that the revelation(s) in Torah, Gospel or Injil. I heard (read) - but I forgot the source - once the prophet (before Muhammad SAW) people were asked (God revelation) to take bath in a river to cleanse their sins. They did. But later another revelation urged/warned people to stop, but they just keep on. One biggest even in Islam is the Corbin. In the revelation, Allah asked the prophet to scarify (slaughter) his son to show highest form of submission to Allah, but later this revelation had been replace by slaughtering the animal.

What could be if the Corbin (slaughtering) of our own child is still practice (for the revelation had not been abrogated), may be you and me are not able to ask or answer questions here, today.

Salam
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:15 PM
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1. Context of 2:106

Please see a verse before 2:106

002.105

It is never the wish of those without Faith among the People of the Book, nor of the Pagans, that anything good should come down to you from your Lord. But Allah will choose for His special Mercy whom He will - for Allah is Lord of grace abounding.

2. What was abrogated?

Please see the following verse:

"Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abrogates that which Satan proposer. Then Allah established His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise;" [22:52]

22:52 given above clearly indicates what happened with the previous scriptures. That Satan caused adult ration in them and Allah abrogated that which Satan proposed. The same Arabic word NASAKH has been used in 22:52 that has been used in 2:106.

3. The word AYAT

The word AYAT that is used in 2:106 does not mean the AYAT of Quran. Allah has used the same word AYAT for what was revealed to the previous prophets.

Although there are many references in Quran, I shall give just a couple of references of AYAT which were revealed to MUSA.

010.075
Then, after them, We sent Moses and Aaron unto Pharaoh and his chiefs with Our AYAT, but they were arrogant and were a guilty folk.

014.005
We verily sent Moses with Our AYAT, saying: Bring thy people forth from darkness unto light. And remind them of the days of Allah. Lo! therein are revelations for each steadfast, thankful (heart).

4. The entire Quran is FARADH

Please see Arabic of 28:85

"Most surely He Who has made the Quran binding [FARADH] on you will bring you back to the destination. Say: My Lord knows best him who has brought the guidance and him who is in manifest error. " [28:85]


In 28:85, when Allah says, Al-Quran is FARADH, He does not make any exception of any verse which is not FARADH.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:15 PM
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"Is Qur'an a mere copy from previous books?"

No it isn't it is a plagiarizing of it.

The Qumran calla Mohammad A Forger/Plagiarizer

And when it is said to them, 'What has your Lord sent down?' they say, 'Fairy-tales of the ancients.' S. 16:24 Arberry

And when We change a Verse [of the Qur'an, i.e. cancel (abrogate) its order] in place of another, and Allah knows the best of what He sends down, they (the disbelievers) say: "You (O Muhammad) are but a Muftari! (forger, liar)." Nay, but most of them know not. S. 16:101 Hilali-Khan

Nay, they say: "These (revelations of the Qur'an which are inspired to Muhammad) are mixed up false dreams! Nay, he has invented it! Nay, he is a poet! Let him then bring us an Ayah (sign as a proof) like the ones (Prophets) that were sent before (with signs)!" S. 21:5 Hilali-Khan

But the disbelievers say: "Naught is this but a lie which he has forged, and others have helped him at it." In truth it is they who have put forward an iniquity and a falsehood. And they say: "Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written: and they are dictated before him morning and evening." Say: "The (Qur'an) was sent down by Him who knows the mystery (that is) in the heavens and the earth: verily He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." S. 25:4-6 Y. Ali; cf. Q. 6:25; 8:31; 10:38; 11:13, 35; 16:24; 83; 27:68; 46:8-9, 17; 52:33; 68:15; 83:13
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:15 PM
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Muslims are either the best clowns that the world has seen or the best liars that the world has seen.

"It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:"

It is also mentioned in Islamic scriptures that Mohammad is the false prophet.

MUHAMMAD FOUNDED MOHAMMEDANISM (Islam).

#1 Mohammad says in the Qumran 39:12
YUSUFALI: "And I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
#2 MOHAMMAD FAILED THE TEST OF PROPHET HOOD, if Muhammad's Allah was true, it would have informed him about the poisoned goat, which later led to his death.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Ibn Sa'd page 249: Verily a Jewish woman presented poisoned (meat of) a she goat to the apostle of Allah. He took a piece form it, put it into his mouth, chewed it and threw it away. Then he said to the Companions: "Halt! Verily, its leg tells me that it is poisoned." Then he sent for the Jewish woman and asked her; "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "I wanted to know if you are true; in that case Allah will surely inform you, and if you are a liar I shall relieve the people of you."

**PROPHET HOOD FAILED**: The question here is weather Allah told Muhammad that the goat is poisoned or not? CLEARLY NOT, as he had to put it in his mouth. Quran says "if you are true; in that case Allah will surely inform you" {muhammad would not eat the goat and he would not die} but because allah NEVER informed him, and muhammad was a liar he ate it and he died, just as the verse says "if you are a liar I shall relieve the people of you."

After all this even if Muhammad knew that it was poisoned, and he still put it (goat) in his mouth, he committed suicide.
And if he came to know after chewing it, its nothing special as anybody would know after they chewed it, no need for special powers.

#3 Mohammedans do not have any supporting evidence to prove mohammad was a prophet (other than he being a self proclaimed prophet, with hallucinations). He has not been mentioned in either of the earlier original texts (Torah/Bible).

#4 Even if we agree that muhammad was illiterate, certain questions come up like, who wrote the quran?, if not muhammad then how did he verify what he was narrating to his biographers or his contemporaries, weather it was exactly what he wanted them to write?

#5 Muhammad forced the Arab moon god allah on everyone. I say this because, mohammad's father, A PAGAN, had the name Abdullah meaning servant of allah much before mohammad had his "revelations"

#6 Muhammad was called a liar
Muhammad informed Umar [the second Caliph], and he called the Prophet a liar. Ishaq:567.

#7 Muhammad broke oaths as he wished and advised mohammedans to do the same
If you ever take an oath to do something and later on you find that something else is better, then you should expiate your oath and do what is better." Sahih Bukhari 9:89:260

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
#8 Mohammad being a false prophet did not perform any miracle.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Qur'an very clearly says of Muhammad that he performed no signs. In Surah 6.37, when Muhammad's adversaries say "Why has no sign been sent down to him from his Lord?", Muhammad is bidden to reply merely that God could send one if he wanted to but had not done so.

In the same Surah we read that Muhammad said, "I have not that for which you are impatient" (Surah 6.57), meaning signs and wonders such as Moses had. He goes on to say that if he had had them, the dispute between him and them would have been decided long ago.

# 9 Muslims PRAY to Mohammad like he said to do:

Tirmidhi relates, through his chain of narrators from 'Uthman ibn Hunayf, that a blind man came to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and said, "I've been afflicted in my eyesight, so please pray to Allah for me." The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said: "Go make ablution (wudu), perform two rak'as of prayer, and then say:

"Oh Allah, I ask You and turn to You through my Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy; O MUHAMMAD (YA MUHAMMAD), I SEEK YOUR INTERCESSION with my Lord for the return of my eyesight [and in another version: "for my need, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah, grant him intercession for me"]."
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:15 PM
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Scriptures revealed before the Qur'an, i.e., the Old Testament and the Gospel, came into book-form long after the days of the Prophets and that too in translation. This was because the followers of Moses and Jesus made no considerable effort to preserve these Revelations during the life of their Prophets. Rather they were written long after their death. Thus what we now have in the form of the Bible (The Old as well as the New Testament) is translations of individuals' accounts of the original revelations which contain additions and deletions made by the followers of the said Prophets. On the contrary, the last revealed Book, the Qur'an, is extant in its original form. Inherently contently, the Quran?s authenticity has never been questioned. Allah Himself guaranteed its preservation and that is why the whole of the Qur'an was written during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessing of Almighty be upon him, his family and companions) himself in parchments. This Blessed Book was never meant to be in translations. In order to keep this in its pristine Arabic form, Allah instructed mankind to read it in Arabic. Muslims are not permitted to recite Al-Qur?an in any language besides Arabic while praying to our Creator. Having said this however, it need not be denied that translations were not used while discovering scientific facts in The Quran, and so it should not be used while researching science or religious doctrines. Only the original Arabic texts must be used to discern meaning of verses, as translations were not revealed (The Quran was revealed in Arabic only), rather it is labor of man who attempts to understand the meaning of Arabic verses and figure the dialectical processes, and then try finding equivalent expressions in their own language, in their own view. Some languages we know may have a hundred vocabularies while the other may have multitudes.
Moreover, there were tens of thousands of companions of the Prophet who memorized the whole Qur'an and the Prophet himself used to recite to the Angel Jibreel once a year and twice when he was about to die. The Qur'an was so meticulously preserved because it was to be the Book of guidance for humanity for all times to come. Why, the many copies of Al-Quran, compiled by Usman, Zaid, Safiyya , Abu Bakr , Abdur Rahman, Urwa, Umar, Ali, Abdalla ibn Abbas(all had it memorized as well as in written form) and many other companions of our Prophet who wrote the Quran during the lifetime of our Beloved Prophet are present today in places like Mecca and Istanbul.
For those who have trouble comprehending this seemingly simple fact, may pacify their hearts.
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