mo min/eviwahhabi/osama/natalies/mjaffary commented that Imams are chosen. He gave the verse 32:24
And We appointed, from among them, leaders, giving guidance under Our command, so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our Signs.
However, let's read some verses before and after so we get the whole picture.
e did indeed overtime give the Book to Moses: be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee): and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel. [23]
And We appointed, from among them, leaders (Aimmas), giving guidance under Our command, so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our Signs. [24]
Verily thy Lord will judge between them on the Day of Judgement, in the matters wherein they differ (among themselves). [25]
First the obvious:
Allah SWT is clearly talking about Bani Israel... do shies think Ali RA is now a part of Bani Israel? The shies assume that since this is true for Bani Israel it must be true for Bani Hashem, but we find more flaws. If these verses are talking about infallible appointed imams, then why is there a stipulation that "so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our Signs"? I thought they were infallible... and Why does Allah say "Verily thy Lord will judge between them on the Day of Judgement, in the matters wherein they differ (among themselves)."? I mean if they're supposed to be infallible and all....
Also, if you look at the Quran as a whole (mainly Surah [28:4-5]), we know that Allah SWT's verse in 32:24 is talking about leaders to emerge from Bani Israel if they kept in favour with Allah's commandments. Also, we can read something similar in [7:129]. It can be said that the this position of leadership was given to all of Bani Israel, dependent on the conditions... Do shias believe all of the Ahle Bayt RA were infallible imams? of course not... they leave out the title for great men such as Muhammad ibn Ali ibn abu Talib RA and Zayd ibn Ali ibn Hossayn RA, and many others... so the shia are stuck again.
Read tafsir of ibn Kathir here:
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1800&Ite mid=88
The shias fail at this verse, and it doesn't prove their doctrine... you know what they'll say... they'll say the word imam appears 12 times in the Quran, and that's reason enough to be a 12er... seriously
i am waiting for a Shina to give a reply with a counter question!
Lil
CZ SUCH questions can never be answered by them on a point by point basis.
@life guru:
please share ALL the Eadith u DO believe in and THEN we'll talk.
otherwise, u got no reason to speak on behalf of Islam, when u clearly don't believe OR practise upon the authentic sun nah (lifestyle) of the messenger of Allah.
Do you really think that you know better (more about the religion) than the Sahaba (the companions of the prophet saws), and even better than the prophet Salaidh alayhi wa sellem himself?
"Say: "Obey God, and obey the Apostle: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Apostle's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"
"So establish regular Prayer and give regular Charity; and obey the Apostle; that ye may receive mercy. (The Noble Quran, 24:56)"
"Ye have indeed in the Apostle of God a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in God and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of God. (The Noble Quran, 33:21)"
"It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by God and His Apostle to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys God and His Apostle, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path. (The Noble Quran, 33:36)"
"The Day that their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire, they will say: "Woe to us! Would that we had obeyed God and obeyed the Apostle!" (The Noble Quran, 33:66)"
"It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered an apostle from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;- (The Noble Quran, 62:2)"
"So obey God, and obey His Apostle: but if ye turn back, the duty of Our Apostle is but to proclaim (the Message) clearly and openly. (The Noble Quran, 64:12)"
Allah says in the Quran: 9. Quran, 28:4-5: ?Lo! Pharaoh exalted himself in the earth and made its people castes. A tribe among them he oppressed, killing their sons and sparing their women. Lo! he was of those who work corruption. And We desired to show favor unto those who were oppressed in the earth, and to make them leaders (imams) and to make them the inheritors.?
These two verses cannot possibly be in relation to any Infallible Imams, since all of the Israelites are promised to become leaders if they persevere with patience and had faith in Allah?s communications. The verse relates to all of the Israelites, and surely all of them were not Infallible Imams. Even Allah says in the same verse that ?your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Judgment, in the matters wherein they differ.? This makes it clear that the context is in regards to all of the 8. Quran, 32:23-25: ?We made it a guide for the children of Israel. And We made of them leaders (imams) to guide by Our command so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our communications. Verily your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Judgment, in the matters wherein they differ (among themselves).?
Israelites who differed amongst each other.
A very convincing argument is found in the book ?Imaamah and the Quran: An Objective Perspective?:
The Ayah clearly states that the Bani Israel as a whole were made ?Imaams? on Earth. Thus, the entire tribe is given the position of Imaamah in this verse. Comparing it with other Quranic Ayahs about the Children of Israel, we see that it closely resembles Verses such as this one:
?They [the Children of Israel] said: ?We suffered hurt before you came to us, and since you have come to us.? He [Musa] said: ?It may be that your Lord is going to destroy your adversary and make you viceroys in the earth, that He may see how you behave.?? (Quran 7:129)
We see that the position of vicegerent and dominion does not refer in here to a perfect infallible leadership, but rather a leadership where the people are judged for their actions; hence the statement: ?that He (Allah) may see how ye behave.?
Thus, the placement of ?Imaamah? in the hands of the Children of Israel in this Verse is similar to the dominion and leadership that Allah may bestow upon any people after rescuing them from their oppressors. It cannot refer to a special form of Imaamah simply because the population as a whole is granted this Imaamah, and they are responsible for the good and bad actions they commit once they are placed under this position.
Source: ?Imaamah and the Quran: An Objective Perspective?, authored by Sidi Abu Salih.
Furthermore, the Israelites were promised leadership so long as they perservered with patience and had faith in Allah?s communications. Thus, their leadership was contingent on fulfilling these two things. According to the Shia, Imamah is a title given to a person at birth and it is not a position that is earned by doing good deeds or showing patience. So why would Allah make the leadership contingent on the behavior of these individuals? Clearly these two verses do not conform to the Shia doctrine of Imamah, and the authentic Shia Tafseer do not attempt to use these verses to refer to the doctrine of Infallible Imamah.
We find that the Quran does not contain the Shia doctrine of Imamah. The Shia believe that after the Prophet (SAW), there were twelve Infallible Imams and that it was the fundamental of faith to follow them and adhere to them. Where then are these twelve Infallible Imams in the Quran? Can the Shia even provide one verse in the Quran which says something to the effect of ?there will be twelve Infallible Imams after the Prophet Muhammad (SAW), and you must follow them?? Instead of finding a verse even vaguely similar to this, the Shia will be forced to mangle a handful of verses in the Quran just to prove that even one single Imam is mentioned in the Quran.
Not only they manipulated verses of the holy book but totally rejects the present Qumran, though do not say openly by maintaining Tawnya.
They believes that when Allah (Set) said ''we '' created the world, Shias interpreter the word '' we '' as imams ( Astaghfirullah ).
Are you saying that Quarn has been doctored? I thought Muslims (both Shia and Sunni) claim that Quran has been preserved in original form and is free from all changes?
Which sect do you belong to that claims distortions in the Quran?
Shia manipulation of Quran?
