Muslims, was the Torah and Gospel ever the word of God?
So Mutafa you think the word of God was changed by man.
Muhammd you also think man changed God's word.
Holis I asked Muslims.
End Davis those who disagree that the Gospel was ever the word of God disagree with their Qu'ran.
But almost ALL Muslims disagree Whit the Qu'ran stay tuned my friend and you will see.
Frost you also agree that it WAS the word of God.
Thanks John I agree.
Mary this question is for Muslims..thanks anyway I will deal with your question if you ask it.
SH Also agrees these Re the word of God and were changed,
answers also agrees the word of God was changed. I'll get to that soon please check back,
Nana I agree and I do believe in the true God of Abraham I also am Christian..bear with me.
Asad that really doesn't answer my question.
A2Z also agrees man changed God's word.
Shreen does that say they changed the word of God or they misrepresented the word of God?
A1 I take it Gods word was changed by man?
the_sile...Not only do I say man can not change the word of God Allah himself says so in your Qu'ran.
Now Muslims why do you disagree with your Allah?6:115. The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.
So Is Allah worng and man chnged his words...or do you guys not believe the words of allah in your Qu'ran...and dont deny each of you said these were the words of Allah but they were changed.
The Sile You argument is against yourself...You said the Torah was the word of God and it was changed.
Of course if the original was not changed then we have the original....the only way we would have diffrerent is if it was changed...Geee Let's not play word games,,, If the Torah is not changed then it is the same....Do you think Allah meant his word could not be changed but it could be destroyed and changed..wouldnt that still be changed?
If the word is not changed...It clearly must still be the same...This is the reason I asked the question this way...If you chck the history of my question you will see Muslims change thier answers as you just did depending on whether I quote the Qursn first or if I ask if the Torah and Gospel had been changed by man.
Please check my questions and see that what I am saying is true.
The sile,
At which point did you contradict yourself?...
We believe in the original Torah and Gospel (The Gospel of Jesus (PBUH))
before it was tampered, modified, and interpolated.
Here you say the original was changed.
Now you say the original is the Qu'ran.
The original God's word are in the Qur'an, so what me worry?
Then you say.
Like I said before Muslims believe on the original Torah and Gospel, if somehow you can prove to us, without any shadows of doubt that the Torah and The Gospel you have right now is in fact The Original ones, then take me to the Church
My answer remains the same Allah says his word can not be changed...You say it was changed...Now you ask me if this is the original? if the priginal is changed the Qu'ran is wrong...If the origianl is not changed..then it must be the same.
I am not calling for you to go to church but to do as Allah tells you and read his truth that is available to you and was available to Muhammad,
Silent you want the stone tablets that the ten commandments are wriiten on because if we have the ten commandments written on paper they are no longer the word of God?
Muslims all share these stone tablets because a copy is not the original word of God? God does not allow us to make copies of these because they are no longer the word of God if they are copies? So you have in your possesion the original book God handed Moses even the stone tablets and all of you Muslims share one book and pass it around.
You all have agreed the Torah and Gospel are the word of God but man changed them,
Now Muslims why do you disagree with your Allah?
6:115. The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.
of course it was the word of God...WAS that is...people some people changed it just to match their personal gains but of course the original still exists
Most Muslims believe in the Old Testament in the Bible. The Qur'an teaches many things that exist in the OT. Their beliefs differ from the Bible starting with the gospels. Muslims believe that Jesus was just another messenger/prophet similar to Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, etc. They believe the bible was so distorted that the Christians made up the parts about Jesus being "the way, the truth, and the life"
I have recently read some parts of the Qur'an myself to understand their beliefs a little better. I have recently made a couple of friends who are Muslim, and wanted to find out the similarities and differences in the beliefs.
They say yes despite references in the Torah that contradict their beliefs. Their God is not the same as the Living God though, no matter what they say. Yahweh is God, Allah is a Prue-Islamic moon god, who really is Satan in disguise.
If you are sincere about knowing the answer because you want the truth then I believe God will give you the answer. All you have to do is ask. Ask by simply talking to him and asking what is the truth and what isn't. The one true God will answer your question because if he made you and your asking him he would want to answer. By the way I am a Christian.
there is no word as beautiful as Allah
there is no example as beautiful as Rasool Ulla
there is no lesson as beautiful as Islam
there is no exercise as beautiful as Nam's
there is no diet as per fact as Fasting
there is no journey as beautiful as Hajj
there is no encyclopedia as per fact as Al Quran
there is no song as modulo us as Azan
lets realize that Islam is everlasting , ever beautiful and per fact
In fact we find once again that the Qur?an actually makes a claim of preservation. There are numerous verses that make this claim, the most definitive being:
"We have without doubt, send down the message; and We will assuredly guard it(from corruption)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 15, Verse 9
In this verse, Allah promises that He Himself has taken on the responsibility of preserving the Qur?an. Unlike the Rabbis and Priests to whom the responsibility of preserving the previous scriptures was given, Allah is of course free of faults and perfectly able to guard His Word.
Where are the originals?
If you mean to refer to the Injeel (the book revealed to Jesus /Eesaa, may Allaah exalt his mention) by the term (original bible), then we do not know the location of the copy you are asking about. But what we can say surely and without any doubt is that the Injeel has been altered and changed by human beings throughout history and the original copy no longer exists.
Therefore, a Muslim has no need to search for its original copy after Allaah has sent the great Quran. Allaah Says (which means): {And is it not sufficient for them that We revealed to you the Book [i.e. the Quran] which is recited to them? Indeed in that is a mercy and reminder for a people who believe.}[Quran 29:51].
He also Says (which means): {And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam], the Book [i.e. the Quran] in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it.}[Quran 5:48].
On the other hand, if by the term (original bible) you are referring to the book used by the Christians, then we say the following:
In the Quran Allaah informs us that He revealed a number of books, including the pages of Prophet Abraham, the Psalms of Prophet David, the Torah of Prophet Moses, the Injeel (Gospel) of Prophet Jesus, and finally, the Quran of Prophet Muhammad. Of these revealed texts only the Quran remains intact in its original form. All of the others (as complete books) have been lost, their remains have survived only as fragments or tampered with in some way so as to make their authenticity doubtful. No where in the Quran is the Bible even mentioned, to say nothing of its being among the revealed texts of Allaah, or as Christian claim "The Word of God." Further, we know from respected scholars that although some fragments of the Psalms, the Torah, and the Injeel (the teachings of Prophet Jesus) may be found in the Bible, comprised of the Old and New Testaments, the Bible can not rightfully be called "The Word of God." Why is this so?
As one publisher (Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Wheaton, Illinois) stated: 'The Bible may look like one book, but it is actually sixty-six books in one. Thirty-nine books make up what we call the Old Testament, and twenty-seven make up the New Testament. It is possible that more than forty writers were used by God to write all sixty-six books.' (Quoted from the "Holy Bible" ? New Living Translation, Gift & Award Edition, l997, p. vii)
So if the Bible is neither narrated by God nor written by Him, and, as such, is not ?the word of God,' then what is it? By any objective criteria, the Bible is a book containing a compilation of stories, legends, folk tales, folk lore, myths, sagas, narratives, poetry, fragments of scriptures (fragments from the Psalms, the Torah, and the Injeel as already mentioned), letters (esp. in New Testament), visions, dreams, accounts of events from doubtful sources (not eye witnesses), editors? or scribes? notes, as well as human errors.
For those who believe in it, it is a book that has historical, cultural, moral and ethical values, and a source of spiritual teaching and guidance. It is a book held in high esteem, primarily by Christians who see it as a divine book and the source of their religious beliefs. But, in the final analysis it is only a book with many limitations and imperfections which disqualify it from being called "The Word of God." Whoever makes such a claim then the burden of proof rests with him. On the contrary, the Glorious Quran is the Speech of Allaah and, through the Angel Gabriel, was revealed to Prophet Muhammad, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam; later compiled into a book more than 14 centuries ago it remains in its original form until today.
Some common misunderstandings about the Bible include the following:
* The Bible is one book, the Old Testament. The Bible contains sixty-six books (or more depending upon the denomination one belongs to).
* The Old Testament (OT) is the Torah followed by the Jews. The OT contains some fragments of the Torah which was lost and the Psalms, but the Talmud is the book followed by the Jews and is totally unrelated to the Bible.
* The New Testament (NT) is the Gospel of Prophet Jesus, or the Injeel. It is neither. It is made up of twenty-seven books, none of which was narrated or written by Prophet Jesus although the NT may contain fragments of the Injeel (sayings and teachings of Prophet Jesus). The Injeel as revealed through Prophet Jesus has been lost. The fragments which may be cited in the NT may not be authentic or in their proper context. So it is erroneous to equate the NT with the Injeel mentioned in the Quran.
* The Bible is a holy book, narrated, dictated by God and is infallible. While this is a claim, this misconception has already been addressed. Since the Bible is 'only' a book, there is no need to call it a forgery, a corrupted text, etc. The Quran is the only authentic "Word of God," His Speech, and Allaah has promised to protect it from distortion of any kind until the Day of Judgment and He has kept His promise. Not one letter or syllable has been changed over the past l4 centuries.
What are the difference between Torah and Qur'an?
The common ground between the Noble Qur'an and the Torah is that both are Books revealed by Allah the Exalted through the Archangel Jibreel (Gabriel), peace be upon him. Yet, the essential differences between these two Books are the following: 1) The Holy Qur'an is preserved by Allah Almighty against interpolation and adulteration, as Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'?n) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)[15:9]. As for the Torah, it did not escape such interpolation and adulteration. 2) The Holy Qur'an was sent down on Allah's Messenger, Muhammad, sporadically (in steps) according to separate occasions and events, while the Torah was revealed all at once. 3) The Qur'an constitutes a commanding law whose validity is continuous till Doomsday, whereas the Torah was abrogated by the Qur'an being the last revealed Book and being supremely predominant over all of the previous Scriptures. Allah Almighty Says: And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'?n) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures)[5:48]
Do the Words 'Torat' and 'Injeel' in the Qur'an refer to the Original Uncorrupted Scriptures?
Question:
In the recent article "If the Bible is corrupted... I feel it is also worth mentioning that the verses in question, (10,64) and (5,68) and other related verses obviously do not, and cannot refer to the "mainstream" scriptures that were/are corrupted in possession at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and those that we have now.
I think, from my general understanding of these verses, the Qur'an obviously refers to the true, original, uncorrupted scriptures that were given to the people aforetime (i.e. Jews and Christians). This is especially apparent in Surah 5, verse 68.
So the Torah and the Injil mentioned in the Qur'an most certainly cannot be the "Old Testament", the "Pentateuch" or the "New Testament" as we have today, but the original Torah and Gospel as was revealed to both Moses (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh).
Therefore is it not better understood logically that these verses in fact refer to the scriptures that were revealed in a pure state and not the corrupted versions?
Answer:
The Qur'an, by the names 'Torah' and 'Injeel' refers to what was called 'Torah' and 'Injeel' in the environment in which the Qur'an was revealed. It is obvious that had the Qur'an implied something else by these words, it was then necessary to clarify that the words were being used to imply something different from what they were commonly used in the environment. It should be kept in mind that the implication of words in a good piece of literature cannot be against the common usage of such words. If such is the case, it can only be considered a flaw of that piece of literature. For example, in the contemporary English language, the phrase "the prophet" (in singular form) is used only for Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)[1]. If any contemporary English writer uses the phrase to imply any other person, it would only be considered a serious mistake and flaw in his writing, unless he/she explicitly or implicitly[2] clarifies in his writing that the phrase has been used in a meaning different from its generally understood connotation.
It may, however, be noted that the 'Torah' and the 'Injeel' (especially the Injeel) that we have in our hands today are not necessarily the ones which were referred to as the Torah and the Injeel by the first addressees of the Qur'an. This is substantiated by a few references of the Qur'an to the Jews and Christians living in the environment of the revelation of the Qur'an. For instance, the Qur'an has referred to a particular sect of Jews, who hold "`uzair" to be the son of God. This obviously is a reference to a particular sect of Jews, who held `uzair to be the Son of God (as the mainstream Jews do not, generally, ascribe to this belief). Furthermore, it should be interesting to note that the Qur'an has referred to the Christians in its environment, by the name of "Nasaara", while, it is known that the general (mainstream) Christians had come to be known as "Christians" or "Maseehee" from a very early period of Christianity (as is mentioned in the Biblical book "Acts of the Prophets"). In view of this fact, it seems quite plausible that the Christians living in the Arabian Peninsula at the time of the revelation of the Qur'an were generally those who ascribed to the Nazarene creed. The Nazarenes were a Syrian Judeo-Christian sect that came to be recognized in the fourth century AD. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:
Although they [the Nazarenes] accepted the divinity of Christ and his supernatural birth, the Nazarenes also maintained strict observance of Jewish laws and customs, a practice that had been dropped by the majority of Jewish Christians. They used a version of the Gospel in Aramaic called the Gospel According to the Hebrews, or the Gospel of the Nazarenes.
However, it is extremely unfortunate that the Injeel according to the Hebrews or the Gospel of the Nazarenes (which was probably the book referred to as 'Injeel' in the environment in which the Qur'an was revealed) is nowhere to be found anymore, as has been mentioned in the quote of the Encyclopedia.
This is my opinion regarding the references of the Qur'an to the two books. However, do let me know if I have failed to fully clarify my point of view.
[1] Refer to the word 'Prophet' in the Oxford Advanced Learner's Encyclopedic Dictionary, third impression, 1995.
[2] Implicit clarification may be through the context in which the word is being used.
The Qur'?n came to humanity after all the previous revealed scriptures had either been lost or, like the Torah and the Gospel , corrupted. Allah speaks about how people had corrupted the scriptures, saying: ?Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say: ?This is from Allah' to gain from it a paltry price. So woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they gain from it.? [ S?rah al-Baqarah : 79]
Yes they are words of God
But If any verse in the bible or the Torah contradicts completely with what is written in the Quran that means the real Torah and bible which God has revealed got corrupted in that particular verse only.
One verse proves what i am saying
They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. ( Quran 5--13)
there r some books named in the Koran that Allah says have been given 2 his prophets by himself and so r his own words:Goran(koran),zabour(i dunno what prophet was given this 1),to rat(torah) and Anjela(gospel)
and in 1 verse god says there is a great punishment awaiting the people who took gods words out and put their own in and also eliminated some parts completely.any way as god tells us in the Koran this final book is the 1 that is incorruptible so we can only trust the words of this 1
We believe in the original Torah and Gospel (The Gospel of Jesus (PBUH))
before it was tampered, modified, and interpolated.
The proof?
have you ever heard of "Contradictions in The Bible
(OT and NT)"
or
"Bible Major Revisions"
or maybe you've read
"Misquoting Jesus"???
Now how can you tell me that that Torah and the Gospel we have now is the original?
I mean you don't even have the copy of the copy of the copy of the copy of the original???
Qur'an on the other hand is as original as it can get.
added answer:
Haha you must think that you're very smart aren't ya?
See here's the twist, Humans can't change the original word of God, that is true, that is why the original words are in The Qur'an (as the Last Testament) if I remember correctly Christians follow the New Testament don't they? well Muslims believe the New Testament (or the Old Testament in that matter) you have right now is no longer valid.
Sooooo.... The Word of God (The Qur'an) cannot be changed by humans, in fact I dare you to change The Qur'an and publish it, I'm sure Muslims worldwide would easily recognize the changes you've made, you wanna know why? easy, because the changes you've made are not God's Word that's why... The same thing applies to OT and NT. Why do we able to spot contradictions everywhere in the Bible? Easy, because the contradictions are not God's Word.
And where does it say that The Gospel (Mark, Luke, Matthew, John) you have right now is GOD's Words?? Even Christians claim it to be "INSPIRED". You my friend, are contradicting yourself...
Added answer#2:
At which point exactly does my answer contradict me?
The original God's word are in the Qur'an, so what me worry?
You really should learn more about Islam, we believe beyond any shadows of doubt that Moses (pub) and Jesus Christ(pbuh) were Great Prophets sent by God, and we believe that Moses' Torah and Jesus'(pbuh) Gospel (not Mark, Matthew, Luke and John's) is God's Word.
But you see, here's the thing, muslims believe that each prophet was sent by God to lead and guide their ummah, Moses(pbuh) was sent to lead Israel, and apparently, so does Jesus(pbuh). But Muhammad (pbuh) was sent down The Qur'an as The Last Testament, it means that Islam was already perfected. and Muhammad's(pbuh) ummah is us.
Like I said before Muslims believe on the original Torah and Gospel, if somehow you can prove to us, without any shadows of doubt that the Torah and The Gospel you have right now is in fact The Original ones, then take me to the Church
Muslims, was the Torah and Gospel ever the word of God?
