For the Muslims: Where does the idea, that Jews changed Torah, come from?
Is it said in Ahadith? Or in AL-Qur'?n? Or how did, when and where did it originate?
@Pirate:
I've heard the claim that Jews distorted the Bible from Muslims various times, and that should be the reason, why it doesn't says anything about Muhammad (though many actually claim that it does anyway)..
I'm just curious what they build it on, if it should be mentioned anywhere in classic Muslim literature or if it is a later claim, made in more recent time..
@Use your brain:
Can you give the Sudra? And why is this interpreted to be about the Jews?
@Trancinguy:
Thanks for the link, but that isn't really in regards to the Muslim claim, is it? I haven't wrote the whole page, so if there's something you'd like to point out, then please do..
@Pelusa:
How is that an answer to my question?
@Hudward:
Jews do not associate a partner with G-D, neither do Jews call Uzair (who is that guy anyway?) "son of G-D"..
At least study a little Judaism, before you begin to make claims about it..
And that really wasn't an answer on the question, was it?
@Jurgen:
So what you say is, that it isn't mentioned anywhere in any Muslim scriptures? It's merely based on an interpretation of Jewish and Christian scriptures?
@Gabriel:
I'm sorry if that is a nuisance, but since people doesn't understand the question and think that it's about something else, I have to correct them..
@Terry:
At last something that I can use.. TU..
@Cher:
Thanks).. You have many interesting thoughts on this.. And also thanks for directing me to your question..
Qumran never said that nor Eadith, as i know. but the right one is:
"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from Allah" to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby."
Additional,
Some Pharisees purposely alluded that Angel Gabriel (Holy Spirit) is the Paraclete instead of Messenger Muhammad prayers and blessings of GOD the most glorious the most exalted are upon him.
The accounts of Prophets: Noah, Lot and Solomon peace is upon them have been altered and became pornographic.
Was Torah actually written by Moses? was he the author of those "books" in Torah attributed to him by the Jews and the Christians.
No, Moses was not the author, he did not compile these books. and the Torah which we see today was written by different historians. It is human Handy work, We Muslim have no objection in believing that it is possible that it may contain some word of God which He bestowed on Moses, but we do not believe that it is totally, from a to z the word of God.
Why it possesses many deficiencies which we cannot expect that they could come from God.
a Devinne book should be pure and perfect while Torah which we see today is not as it contains many many mistakes.
See, to judge mistakes, we have a mind and one can pick them easily if he has mind. God need not to tell us every time that what you are reading is incorrect. Anyways see the link hereunder and check some mistakes being pointed out.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/judaism/TF57JBVHITUUPOSVU
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Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol. 6, Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, page 1108- says that in Arab, where there is Yemen now, there was a sect of Jews who used to regard Uzair as son of God. but this sect no more exist now.
CZ Jews do all wrong things, they associate a partner wide GOD, if this Torah is real then why dint they practise the religion Islam? the primary idea of Torah and Quran were same but as the Jews have changed Torah they perform all tasks which is forbidden by ALLAH in the Quran. If Jews have not changed Torah then why do they call Uzair the son of GOD?
"How can you say we (the Jews) are wise and the law of the Lord is with us, when in fact the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?"
Jeremiah 8:8
The Quran merely confirmed what was truth.
"Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees (learned Jews), which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseThather or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to [his] father or [his] mother, [It is] a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. [Ye] hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men."
Matthew 15:1-9
The claim brought by Howard is a production of Mutahhar AL-Maqdisi, Djuwayni, Ibn Hazm and AL-Samaw'al. It's a claim based on Sura 9:30-31 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzair ). Because of that it won't matter that it's patently false and has no empirical verification. Basically, the guy can lie and they swallow it whole.
First off- please don't reply to EVERY answer you get.
Second- It's called their own little propaganda!
@Cher- you see, I am Jewish, and while you just violated 3 biblical sins at once, I'm here just being nice.
Shfichoot Damim (something you should give up your life for[Sanhedrin 74a])
Rechilus
Sheker
Shmuel- I'm sorry. I hope you forgive me.
Once again you are.... WRONG.
I am Jewish
I am the age a say I am
it's as simple as that, and if you won't accept that, then I'll simply prove to YOU that you are NOT Jewish.
You see the laws for IDOLATERS, AND PEOPLE WHO VIOLATE SHABBAT are the SAME laws.
So you're not Jewish- simple.
I don't have an answer but can add a few things I picked up.
Muslims pray everyday for those who corrupted the word of God. I asked a question in YA about that prayer & the answers were that it really is what's prayed:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgCYGkmRx0ABH5ZevBz2tafty6IX;_ylv=3?qid =20090617091128AALKLvf
Some of the answers to it, from Muslims will probably fill in more of what you're looking for.
Muslims do claim that Jews call Ezra "Son of God" based on some Haidth they have. It's obviously false if one knows Judaism. I went into debate with a Muslim on this & his claims were that it could have been true of some group at the time. But it still makes no sense. By that time the Talmud was written to record the oral history & basic interpretations of Torah that we use --- and by that time Christianity existed & so the differentiation that we don't call anyone son of god was already well instilled in Judaism. The Hadaith is that a couple people were talking with a couple of Jews & learned this, or Mohammend over heard them. Mohammend in Arabia was too close to Babolyn for some rogue group to have some view that violated core Judaism. It made no sense.
Furthermore, Jews do call everyone sons & daughters of God in Torah, actually children of God in the term used. So it sounds like someone overheard some Jews talking about Ezra as being a good son of God, got confused with Christaintiy -- and wrote the Eadith based on that. As for Uzair, I think that's the Arabic for Ezra.
It wasn't in Koran itself.
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Gabrial
I liked that he answered to everyone. And stop pretending to be Jewish while picking on people. It's tiresome.
EDIT: Gabriel - time & again, you niggle at others & once again you've come up with it at me. You admitted lying about your age & background many times at first. You aren't Jewish & that's the next lie I'd like gone. Edit for last time: You've point blank told me you were lying when calling yourself 13 & going to be a Rabbi in 6 months. Calling others sinners is a Christian concept - so you're reinforcing my perception.
On another answer a side note -
Christianity claims Jews killed a bunch of our prophets. (Amazing since neither our books or history shows it & we certainly were verbose in recording every good & bad gore detail of our history.) I've noticed Muslims reference this not infrequently about Judaism.
Also on Islamic religious instruction sites, most I've been to (which isn't that many) describe things about Judaism that are completely false such as that we value Talmud above Torah with proofs that aren't very accurate themselves. But the lists go on & it's odd that way. They do the same with Christianity. Personally putting down my religion with inaccurate statements isn't a good way to get me to convert.
For the Muslims: Where does the idea, that Jews changed Torah, come from?
).. You have many interesting thoughts on this.. And also thanks for directing me to your question..
