Jews & Christians: what do you think of this commentary on how SOME Christians MIStra
Commentary from J D STONE: 'Christianity Revealed':
Matt. 1.22-23: "Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet*, saying, Behold a virgin shall be with child and shall bring forth a son and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted, God with us." (*Isa. 7.14).
Virgin birth is an important fundamental teaching believed by most Christian denominations, who claim it is a fulfillment of a Biblical prophecy.
REFUTATION
The verse which mentions a virgin can only be found in the K.J.V., which is incorrectly translated. Other Bibles, such as the N.E.B., R.S.V. and the Jerusalem Bible (Catholic Version) do not give credence to the belief in a virgin birth. There are five points worth noting as we compare the original Hebrew with the English translation of the K.J.V.:
a) In Hebrew, the verse reads in the present tense, "is with child" and not as according to the K.J.V., which says, "will conceive and bear a child." In Hebrew, it states that she is pregnant, not will be pregnant. In fact, in the Catholic Bible, Isa. 7.14 reads as follows: "The maiden is with child and will *soon* give birth to a son.?
Jesus was not born until *700* years after this sign was given, which could not be described as "soon.? The text reads "is with child"; no woman could be kept pregnant for 700 years until Jesus arrives.
b) This is not a prophecy for some future date; it is an "OT" (sign). Whenever "OT" is used in Hebrew, it means something which will come to pass immediately. "Ot" is used elsewhere in the Bible: "This shall be a sign unto thee from the Lord" (Isa. 38.7-8) and "If they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign" (Ex. 4.8-9). In each case, the sign came to pass immediately, not 700 years later.
c) The name of the child was to be Emmanuel. Nowhere in the New Testament do we find that Jesus is called Emmanuel. The angel informs Joseph in a dream that Mary will give birth to a son and that he could call his name "Jesus" (Matt. 1.20-21). "His name was called "Jesus" (Luke 2.21). All the evidence indicates that Emmanuel was a different individual from Jesus.
d) The text specifically says, "the young woman" - "Alma" - whereas the King James Version changes the translation to "a virgin." The definite article is changed to the indefinite article, whereas the original text is evidently referring to the young woman known to both Isaiah and Ahaz and not to some unknown person in the future.
HASSE JO - you've ignored the points raised in this post.
- to the arrogant woman who thinks she knows Hebrew BETTER than the most respected Jewish scholars - 'Alma' means YOUNG WOMAN
I think that's a nice commentary with much thought put into it.
Personally I don't care, because all of my life, even when I was being brought up in a Methodist Church in the South, where we used only the KJV, I never believed in the virgin birth. Nor do I believe that Jesus rose from the dead. But that doesn't matter to me, and I don't think it would matter to Jesus either. All Jesus ever wanted us to do was to love one another, and show that love by "doing to the least of these".
His name was YAHOSHUA. He was called Emmanuel. I often wondered how they could consider Isaiah 7:14 a messianic prophecy, considering all aspects of it, context and all. Recall that the "New Testament" was written in Hebrew, and all we have extant are poor Greek translations. (Translated by heathen who thought that the law--which was a marriage contract-- was 'nailed to the cross')
Any time you translate from one language to another you run into trouble. I don't see a problem with that particular verse. A young woman in those times if not married was a virgin, or they would have termed her harlot. I also don't see a big issue with the tense.
As for the name Emmanuel. Look at verses like called blessed. No one meant the name was "blessed".
Biblical Hebrew had only two aspects (not tenses). The perfect aspect was used for completed actions, and generally implies past time, but not always. The imperfect aspect was used for uncompleted actions, and thus could imply present or future time.
To this creator of confusion:
If you knew Hebrew and Scripture as well as you pretend then you would know that Immanuel means "God is with us", and that Yeshua Ha'Mashiach (Jesus) fulfilled many other prophecies as well like Isaiah 53 (written in 8Th century B.C.)and Psalm 22 (written by King David 3 millennial ago){not to mention countless other prophecies}.
His commission was given in Isaiah 49.
Also remember what Yeshua Ha'Mashiach said in John 5:42-47
"...that you do not have the love of God in yourselves. I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him {a reference to the Antichrist who dwells amongst us this very day!}. How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God? Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"
By this, Yeshua meant the following Holy Scriptures from the Holy Torah:
B'reshith(Genesis) 49:10
B'Midbar(Numbers) 21:9 {refers to what is meant in John 3:14}
and 24:17 {referring back to Genesis 49:10 again}
& especially D'bharim(Deuteronomy) 18:15,18-19
If Yeshua (Jesus) is not the Anointed One that comes in His First Advent, dies, and is resurrected right before the destruction of the second Temple foretold in Daniel 9 then I must simply ask, "Who was?"
For Yeshua (Jesus) must make Two Advents just like the two wonderful cycles of rain that fall on Israel each year. First as Rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef- the suffering servant then later as Yeshua Ha'Mashiach ben David! Hosea knew this Truth and is why he wrote:
"Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the LATTER and FORMER rain unto the earth."- Hosea 6:3
With one trivial exception, I concur with your analysis.
The exception is that My "Stone Edition" Tanach would translate the Isaiah verse as "... the maiden will become pregnant and bear a son, and she will name him Immanuel." (At least one rabbinical friend has agreed that my exception is trivial.)
Nevertheless, the important point for me is that the commentary - and the text preceding & following it - make it clear that it will be Isaiah's (or Ahaz's) wife who will bear the child, i.e., women living at the time of the prophecy. What the prophecy says is that in effect " ..Judah will be saved from the threat of Rezim and Pekah."
I am not Jewish, but it does strike as the epitome of arrogance that a text so central to the life (and study) of its creators would become fodder for "alternate" interpretations by all and sundry.
This is an old hobby horse which has been exercised for many years by people who, presumably, do not wish to believe that there is anything special about Jesus.
VIRGIN
Lexicon Results for `Alma (Strong's H5959) Hebrew for H5959 AAansliteration
`Alma
Pronunciation
AL?m?' (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
from H5958
Outline of Biblical Usage 1) virgin, young woman
a) of marriageable age
b) maid or newly married
"There is no instance where it can be proved that 'Alma designates a young woman who is not a virgin. The fact of virginity is obvious in Gen 24:43 where 'Alma is used of one who was being sought as a bride for Isaac." (R. Laird Harris, ET AL. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, p. 672.)
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count ? Total: 7 AV ? virgin 4, maid 2, damsels 1
EMMANUEL
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child , and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
With the greatest respect ...
I love it when you talk dirty.
I can't add much -
The young woman 'is a virgin or she is a harlot' pretty well sums it up.
The zealots go one step further and claim she WAS a virgin as opposed to an UN-wed young woman.
She HAD to be a VIRGIN so that the rest of their stuff made sense.
We all know Saul of Tarsus' version of sanity is nothing more spectacular than a carbon-copy of the Mithra scam with some Horus thrown in for fun.
The New Testament was written long after the old one and 'they' could write anything they wanted to 'fit' what ever they were trying to achieve ... universal domination, hence 'catholic'.
~
It's good you are searching for answers - could it be the Holy Spirit is stirring your heart through the posts of Christians and Messianic Jews?
Anyway i wouldn't worry about what you think is a mistranslation -- watch the excellent link on 'you tube' the poster has given you of a Jewish man who shares his testimony of how he came to believe in Yeshua as his Messiah -- i think he said he is from the UK, but found the truth while working in a kibbutz in Israel. He was an angry young man until 25 yrs ago God poured out His grace upon him.
I think you will enjoy watching..
I totally agree that virgin is mistranslated. The maiden is the "prophetess" and the child is Isaiah's son Mahershalalhashbaz.
Isa 8:3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.
Isa 8:4 For before the child shall have knowledge to cry, My father, and my mother, the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria shall be taken away before the king of Assyria.
But as one reads further you will realize that this is a dual prophecy regarding the time of King Ahaz and a future time of the Messiah.
Isa 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.
Many Prophets were to perform instructions which revealed a later fate for the entire people of Israel, such as Hosea taking a wife of harlotry.
Hosea 1:2 When the LORD first spoke through Hosea, the LORD said to Hosea, "Go, take to yourself a wife of harlotry, and have children of harlotry; for the land commits flagrant harlotry, forsaking the LORD."
Emmanuel is not necessarily a proper name as translated or understood. It could be translated as God with us or refer to the son of Isaiah.
The problem is most Christians never read the Tanakh. And when they do they are reading some messed up Christian version that adds, removes or changes the wording of verses.
Also when they read it, when it says god, they imagine it to be Jesus. So it all comes down to trying to read it with a non bias neutral mind. Then they would be shocked at how wrong they were.
There is alto here to comment on- But let's say what you write is correct who are the prophets speaking = of *With Child*
Emmauel is GOD WITH US how is God with us?
Mary being pregnant -Why would a young devout Jewish girl create a wild story that she was carrying a Child that would be the begotten son of GOD?
Why would so many Torah Observant Jews all of a sudden decide to believe Mary gave birth to the promised Jewish Messiah? These Jews knew Torah and followed the law to the tea...Again I believe the Gentile church distorted many of the true teachings that were given to them by the first Jews/Christians...
You my friend are a classic example of a Scripture lawyer that would temp Jesus oh so often. However Jesus the Christ would always put them in their place and they wouldn't have anything to say afterward. You see the virgin thing you explain isn't quite the same as the scholars I study with have to say about the subject.
E. W. Bullinger, D.D.
James Strong, LL.D, S.T.D.
Just my own personal observation on the name Emmanuel thing. How many names does Satan go by? Each of his names indicating a quality about him. This is true for a large amount of named people in the bible. Almost as a tool to help you get a better description of the person, go ahead, look up some names. Emmanuel means God with us, and surely he was. Jesus means YHVH (God's) savior, also true. Just some common sense. If you wish to see the notes In the Companion bible by Bullinger or definitions by Strong, I have the links in my sources.
Jews & Christians: what do you think of this commentary on how SOME Christians MIStra
