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Old 07-31-2010, 06:38 AM
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Default why didnt any of the prophet, in any of the scriptures, quran, bible, tanakh ever str

if God is so concerned with justice, mercy and right, why wasn't there ever a passage strictly forbidding slavery. Why is it condoned? we all know slavery is an injustice and a horror.
slavery was entrenched in the social framework of the society
So you are saying that the institution of slavery is so entrenched in society that not even GOD himself or his prophet could forbid it. I thought Muhammad was highly respected and revered and GOD was the creator. .
RW that's disgusting and even more disgusting that god condones this.
1) guaranteed housing, (yeah forget what you had before. say a few Canaanites family's. had their own place before the Israelis invaded and took them into slavery and destroyed their house. Now they have an one room shack they sleep chained in at night.

2) guaranteed meals (says who/ they could go few days without anything to eat. their slaves, no need to feed them regularly. )

3) relative safety. (yeah right. regular beatings, torture. the threat of being killed if the master is displeased at the work being done while starving.)

4) a job, and job security. (funny. yeah a slave has a job. whether he likes it or not. and if the slave is a woman, it might get disgusting and very degrading. )

5) appropriate clothing (says who)

6) leaving the deal with a small amount of money saved up (yeah right. i would think leaving the deal alive would be hard. )
if you put it that way, being a slave in ancient Israel might be better but i doubt the reality of the situation in that barbaric world was better. I doubt everyone followed those laws. BUt, a slave was a slave for life. i read that in the Tanakh. And their children were by default.

I also doubt there are any legal enforced prostitutes in America. When women were enslaved, it was usually for only a few jobs. Hareems, prostitution was one of them.

Slavery is still very widespread today. there are Jews in israel doing it, their government is strying to stamp it out but doing a bad job at it. Those orthodox use biblical verses to defend their practices.

Muslims in Africa and Arabia also still own slaves. The Salafe use the quran to defend it. during Islams golden age, the ottoman empire had millions enslaved legally. there are surviving documents that say, they were treated very barbarically.
RW why do you think only americans during the pre civil war had slavery so horrible.

Some of my information about conditions in slavery were from the 20th century work camps under Stalin and the Japanese empire
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Old 08-04-2010, 06:38 AM
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cos people of those times had slaves
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:38 AM
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Because at the time of the revelation of the Quran slavery was entrenched in the social framework of the society.However though Islam tolerated it a seance it is clear from Hadith that is not an ideal condition.

The prophet himself did not keep slaves,but instead told his followers that there were blessings in freeing them.If you hit a slave and cause him harm you are obligated to free him.Slaves have to be cared for adequately,fed clothed,allowed to marry, allowed to purchase their freedom,given time to rest during the day etc etc.

For many sins,the act of repentance is freeing a slave and is a great sin to enslave a free man.

So in this way we as Muslims recognize that slavery is not something that the Muslim should ideally participate in.

On a side note.Life isn't fair,and Muslims don't expect it to be.For a lot of people it sucks,but that's the hand they've been dealt.As we say,this life is nothing.
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:38 AM
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not all slavery is the same. while yes, its bad in general, .... well let me put it this way.

slaves of those who followed the biblical age laws regarding slavery in the Torah, had a better standard of living than a LARGE PORTION of the current earth population.

let me reiterate this. changing to a standard of life, following the slavery regulations in the tank, would be an IMPROVEMENT TO QUALITY OF LIFE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, ... even in the US.

how many people in the US are physically and mentally capable of working, and just can't find a job? (enough to be a problem)

what if you offered them a deal where for 7 years they would get:
1) guaranteed housing (of reasonable quality)
2) guaranteed meals (of reasonable, but not necessarily generous quality and amount)
3) relative safety. (as much as anyone has)
4) a job, and job security. (not necessarily a pleasant job, but one that is guaranteed)
5) appropriate clothing
6) leaving the deal with a small amount of money saved up

how many people, even within the US, would stand in line in the snow for DAYS to sign up for such a deal? (a lot)

the bottom line being that slavery of those following the laws in the tench is a VERY VERY VERY different thing than the slavery of say, Prue-civil war united states.

also, did you notice threes a provision that after a certain number of years, the slave is set free? and not only that, there is a provision for them to VOLUNTARILY make the arrangement permanent.

how many people worldwide would do whatever it took, to get an arrangement where they were protected, housed, and fed, with guaranteed employment for a time? there are SO many people worldwide whom such an arrangement would be a massive improvement to their lifestyle, the fact that you put it down because its called slavery is absurd.

hell ignore the people who can't get work. there are people who are happy to have work at all, who would have a quality of life improvement with that arrangement over their current situation.

edit:
disgusting? I agree that its not ideal. but honestly the way things are for so many people, even within the US is no better, in fact for many its far worse.

1) irrelevant. that has nothing to do with the topic. and I don't think slaves were generally kept chained like that. no need.
2) actually no, they were required to be fed. in fact the "owner" had to feed the slaves before they fed themselves. beatings were limited very severely. no permanent injuries allowed, no torture allowed.
3) entirely false. slaves were still considered human beings and people under the laws in the tench. killing a slave was still murder and it was not acceptable. yes they could be beat if they did not please their master, but it was limited to only temporary injuries.
4) there are people with legal jobs in the US that are worse.
5) isn't that kinda a given? if nothing else out of practicality?
6) depends on the situation, in some cases yes, it was permanent. but not all.

you should read the text a bit more carefully. you do not seem to understand the difference between slavery in the bible period following the laws in the Torah, and the foolish evilness that was early american history.

for example check out Exodus 21

honestly look at the way the world is now. how people in poverty live. the current state of the world is no better.

edit2: do keep in mind that there were different varietys of slavery in the time, depending on who it was and why and such. but even in that case from what I've read even in the case of permenant slaves, they were treated worlds better than the "slaves" in settings like pre-civil war US.
and as far as legally enforced prostitutes in the US... I am not talking about legal. I am talking about reality and situations that are socially preventable, but aren't.
part of my point is that events in the past need to be considered for the time they occured, chronologically in context, so to speak. if there are people using those laws to justify slavery today, they are wrong.

I guess what I am saying is that yes, those things were bad then. but they are not nearly as bad as you and many others make them out to be, particularly when compared to the way things are in the modern world.

look at for example the laws regarding hebrew "slaves". highly regulated and as a means to solve certain problems that STILL exist.

and no, I don't think that the early US was the only ones in the world with horrible slavery. yes there were others. thats just an easy, relatively "personal" example.
there were also other cultures that had some forms of "legalized" slavery that were not remotely as bad.
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