Does the Talmud says God made the Jews swear that they would not take the Land of Isr
Zionism as a betrayal of the core values of Judaism. This belief has partial foundations in a Talmudic passage that suggests that God made the Jewish people swear they would not try to end their long exile prematurely by rebelling against the nations of the world and endeavoring to conquer the land of Israel by force.
http://www.guiltandpleasure.com/index.php?site=rebootgp&page=gp_article&id=17
The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book (actually a collection of books). Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."
yes dint you see Jews protests against Israel and the Zionists??
my grandmothers neighbor was a British Jewish old lady, she said she hated whats hap penning in Israel and is against it because in our book the tel mud it is said that when the day comes that the land of Israel is announced , it SHAL BE THE END OF JEWESH PEOPLE. that will be g-od's punishment.
I'm not sure if the Jews had to swear, but I have heard mention of this concept. The statement about Zionism is true.
shampoo - Although I don't study Talmud, that statement appears to be saying that its hard to see the Rabbinic Laws as equally important as the Laws of the Torah, because they weren't directly G-d given. Therefore, a person should be careful to carry them out properly, even more careful than he is with the laws of the Torah. The laws of the Torah (not Old Testament - there are changes), are equal to the Rabbinic Laws - one cannot go without the other. The Torah is considered more holy because it was G-d given, not because it's laws are more significant.
Once again you have no idea what you're talking about, and using anti-Semitic websites to prove your point just shows the smallness of your brain. And Neturei Karta are about 1000 nuts who have been disowned by every other Jewish organization in the world.
For those whom claim God gave the Jews ownership over Arab Palestine- PLEASE, show me in the Bible/Torah/Talmud were God's promise of RESIDENCY was of ownership and that the Jews were to kill Arabs to get it,YOU SIMPLY CAN NOT-IT IS NOT THERE.I can promise my relatives can come and stay with me-that does NOT mean they can KILL ME and STEAL my property.
I wonder how many do not know, the Arabs owned almost all of Canaan, including Arab Palestine. They were not called Arabs at the time, but Ishmalites/Canaanites/Arvi(Hebrew term for Arab).Yes and so very TRUE. God's promised land was only one of residency, NOT, ownership as was the British Mandate(political, NOT, land borders-read closely-Arab Palestine to remain ONE country). The Arabs were always FIRST and MAJORITY owners of the ARABIAN, NOT, JEWISH Peninsula(Israel a part of)/Canaan/God's promised land. Except for non Arab Iran, and,until 1948, Israel., ARAB owned it. Israel would have to kill ALL the Arabs and non Arab Iranians(Israel working on that one) and steal all their land to get it.NO WHERE in the Bible, nor, the British Mandate does it state Israel is to kill the Arabs and steal their land-NO WHERE-they need to quit laying the blame on God and the British.
It seems very strange that the world's best equipped(6 Billion/yr US FREE money backing them) and trained military of 150,000 , in the world, has trouble handling a group of 30,000(all Arab freedom fighters combined-Israel labels terrorists), poorly armed Arab freedom fighters. Either their military is not that good OR, EVEN MORE LIKELY, ISRAEL IS DRAGGING HER FEET ON THE PEACE PROCESS UNTIL SHE ANNEXES THE WEST BANK AND GAZA STRIPS THROUGH ETHNIC CLEANSING(WHEN I SAY MURDER, MY ACCOUNT OFTEN GETS DELETED-GO FIGURE).
NO ONE CAN DENY THE FOLLOWING FACTS UNLESS THEY ARE MENTALLY CHALLANGED:
Pre 1948 ARAB Palestine(population 93% Arab, less than 5% MIDDLE EASTERN,NO EUROPEAN JEWS- After 1948 Israel-70% (50% European Jews, 20 % Middle Eastern Jews),30% Arabs. The West Bank and Gaza strips- 70% Arabs (AND SHRINKING FOM ISRAELIE ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS AND ETHNIC CLEANSING), 30% Jews.
Actually, it started in Biblical times when Isaac stole Ishmael's inheritance.In modern times it started in 1922(Arab armies-no Jews participated(outside of Arab Palestine, Jews fought with the Ottomans)-threw off the Ottoman Empire Occupiers(few Turks owned land in Arab Palestine)-the UN then assigned Britain as an occupier when the ILLEGAL Foreign European Jewish immigrants swelled Arab Palestine's(93% Arab) from less than 5% Middle Eastern Jews to 35%(mostly European Jews). These Jews became belligerent, demanding a chunk of Arab Palestine for a homeland from the British UN assigned occupiers. The British attempted to set up POLITICAL, NOT, land borders for Jews and Arabs-this is the British Mandate. The Jews were not satisfied and formed murderous Jewish terrorist groups, labeled as such by the British-Likud(oops, IRGUN before being elected), the Stern Gang, Lehi, Levi, Haganah, and many others and started slaughtering their Arab hosts and stealing THEIR land to ILLEGALLY form Israel(UN ratified a day AFTER the fact) in 1948. The Israelies continue stealing Arab land through murder up to the present.They must stop laying the blame on God and the British.
Type Irgun(NOW elected Likud) in your browser to find out.Irgun was the murderous Jewish terrorist group Likud(oops Irgun BEFORE being elected), one of many- the Stern Gang, Levi, Lehi, Haganah, and many others OFFICIALLY labeled as such by the British-You want REAL terrorists- makes the Nazis look like pansies-type Irgun in your Google browser. No one associates Jews with being terrorists- the Irgun were worse than ANY Arab terrorist group- Irgun used grenades and car bombs to kill Arabs, foreign dignitaries, EVEN Jews opposing their methods, they sniped innocent unarmed Arabs in the back, dropped Arab men women, children, and, babies off building roof tops, bull dozed houses using tanks with Arab families being buried alive,doused Arabs in kerosene and burned them alive, stomped on pregnant and nonpregnant women's bellys or had as many men stand on them until they were killed,cut out babies from their mother's wombs and bellies, poisoned water sources,gang- raped Arab women and young girls 13 and under, then shooting them as they screamed in terror, in non vital areas, finally, a fatal bullet to the head where the infamous IDF term"Confirming the kill" arouse.THEY WERE SO BRUTAL AND MURDEROUS, ANOTHER SUCH GROUP,HAGANAH, ATTEMPTED UNSUCCESSFULLY, TO REIN THEM IN.
THE IRGUN WERE SO BRUTAL AND MURDEROUS, THEY TOOK ARAB LAND BY FORCE, KILLING, RApING, PILLAGING.iSRAEL WAS illegally FORMED IN 1948(un RATIFIED IT A DAY after THE FACT).
Israel only exists, by stealing ARAB land through brutality and murder.The Arabs were there FIRST and have always been the MAJORITY in the Arabian, NOT, Jewish Peninsula/ Canaan/ God's promised land.I am STILL waiting for someone to show me where God gives the Jews ownership of Arab land and were to kill them to get it.
The Talmud says no such thing.
Although it is true that there are some religious Jews that are against Zionism (see Satmar and the radical Neturei Karta... who have been banned by Satmar) and their basis for this is some interpretations of what the Talmud means, nevertheless, the majority of other religious Jews differ with them on this, including how the Talmud is interpreted.
And for the record, can you please tell us how the land of Israel was 'taken by force"?
If I recall correctly, there was a UN partition plan and a later vote that resulted in the birth of Israel. The war came SUBSEQUENT to that and was a result of Arab armies attacking Israel. (Translation into plain English: It was a defensive war.)
some major arguments about the Talmud, try not to interpret it. as the old joke goes, ask two rabbis, get three answers. seriously, it is often too challenging for experienced experts in the Talmud and commentaries to give definitive explanations.
it just isn't possible for anyone who hasn't spent years in a top class yeshiva to give definitive explanations, and anyone who publicly says they can is almost certainly a fraudster. similarly, anyone who claims to know what it all means on the Web is probably a fraudster, certainly misguided, sometimes anti-Semitic (though that is a minority, nowadays. thank god.) and rarely has anything positive and constructive to say. basically, ignore them.
sorry about the unsatisfying answer, it's the truth.
Jews are the only group who have been living in that region for the past 3700 years. The very term 'Palestinian' ALWAYS has referred TO Palestinian JEWS.
Go and look back Prue around 1964 - you won't find anything about the 'Palestinians' we know today. Why not? Because they called themselves JORDANIANS or ARABS.
LOL - even Arab leaders openly admit this!
So no land was 'stolen'.
And the only act of aggression was when the entire ARAB world declared WAR on Israel simply because she dared to EXIST.
Nope- the Talmud says no such thing- as the Talmud just con tins the oral law and explanations. Actually, the G-d COMMANDED the Jews to conquer Israel by Force in the Torah. G-d mandated that they should get rid of ALL the Canaanites in the area- to kill all those that did not leave voluntarily. Do try reading the actual Torah, G-D's commands for the war on Canaanites is frequent material for the atheists seeking to attack it around here LOL
As for Neturei Karta- they are a tiny fringe group that in the last two years have been put into Cherem (a form of excommunication) by the majority of Orthodox Jewish movements- the Satmar Chassidim quickly follow by the Edah Haharedit (which your article tries to imply are there allies). In the last two years the core of Neturei karta worldwide has shrunk to less than 200 people worldwide- nobody in the Orthodox world associates with them in anyway.
so what?, what are the real values of the Judaism ?
a Jew which doesn't watch the Sabath laws is be trying the Judaism ?,
someone will say no, religious people will say yes.
the think is we are far from the dark ages in which the religion dictated the social ideologies.
we don't need the religion anymore.
Does the Talmud says God made the Jews swear that they would not take the Land of Isr
