In Reading many Answers from Jewish Posters-That no one can be a Jew if they believe
As the Messiah I have a question:
Since the Gospels were written by Jews, where is it written that they announced they were no longer Jewish after accepting the Messiahship of Jesus Christ?
Where is it written that Mary, Joseph, Mary of Magdela were no longer Jews?
When Jesus spoke in the Temple and spoke the Sermon on the Mount to the Jewish people who said anyone who listens and accepts Jesus as the Jewish Messiah is no longer Jewish?
In the entire New Testament you will not find one scripture that says I was a Jew but I am no longer a Jew because I believe in Jesus
Why do you believe Jews thousands of them in Jesus's time were no longer Jewish, where is that written in TORAH or the Holy Bible?
Of course a Jew can believe in Jesus. Just like a vegetarian can enjoy a rump steak, a peace activist can join a violent demonstration, and a dictator who preaches martyrdom can surrender himself to his enemies. As long as logic and clear thinking are suspended, anything makes sense!
There are many substantial and vital distinctions between Judaism and Christianity. Of course, there are many similarities as well, primarily because Christianity emerged from Judaism. However, the emergence was not a direct line. Christianity broke from Judaism, forming a new religion, so it is misleading, however comfortable the thought might be, to believe that the two religions are essentially the same, or to see Christianity as the natural continuation of Judaism.
The Jews got peeved because Jesus didn't follow their teaching.
In fact he was nothing more than a naughty Jewish boy who didn't do as his mum told him. To this day Jewish mothers use his Crucifixion as a way of getting their sons to obey them.
The post I have read over the years implied Although the Jewish People may believe in the existence of Jesus but excepting Him as the Messiah is a no no Simply because He didn't meet all the requirements that are needed by their faith
As the Son of God himself said, "Salvation is of the Jews, because they know Who they worship". John 4:22
If he said it, I believe it and I also know this is true, because as one of his sheep, I can hear and understand his voice - even to this day his words hold serious meaning for his followers, and his words will never pass away, because they're simply too important and true.
He was telling us that salvation is of the Jews, because they know the LORD God and that there is no other god! Even though there may be many gods - they're all false gods, usually made of wood, stone or myth.
To be a Christian you have to believe that Jesus is God; so you cannot be a Jew if you worship Jesus.
Its not specific to Jesus- it applies tom incorporating elements of ANY other religion into your belief system that separates a Jew from Judaism and the Jewish nation.
Where do we learn this? From the TORAH. In Shemot (Exodus) Chapter 12 it states:
43. The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, "This is the statute of the Passover sacrifice: No estranged one may partake of it. A. S's? A S's S's S's?????? ???????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ????:
Who is the estranged one? The Jew who has taken on the beliefs of other people- we know this form the hebrew there: ???? ????? literally means "son of the stranger". It is not referring to non-Jews in general since they are forbidden in verse 45
45. A sojourner or a hired hand may not partake of it. ??. ???????? ????????? ??? ?????? ????:
And after the list of people who partake and forbidden the Torah states in verse 47
47. The entire community of Israel shall make it. ??. ???? ????? ?????????? ???????? ?????:
Thus the Torah has explicitly forbidden the Jew who has taken on the beliefs of another faith from participating- and then excluded him from the community of Israel by stating "ALL" of the community make it- and he does not! Verse 48 specifically inculdes converts to make sure no one would leave them out!
48. And should a proselyte reside with you, he shall make a Passover sacrifice to the Lord. All his males shall be circumcised, and then he may approach to make it, and he will be like the native of the land, but no uncircumcised male may partake of it. ??. ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ???????? ????? ?????????? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ?????????? ??????? ?????????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ????:
The Talmud in masechta Sanhedrin, Chapter11, Mishnah 1 elaborates on this and states that reading and studying other religions to adopt there practices makes a person liable for kares, spiritual excission, being cut off from G-d and the community of Israel in this world and the next! In the Shulkhan Aruch the Rema rules that a Jew who converts to another religion has to undergo a full conversion, as does Rambam in Hilchos Avodah Zarah (though in the modern era for specific reasons we follow the more lenient ruling of HaRav Moshe Feinstein.)
As for the fact that Christian scriptures are silent on the topic- so what? Of what relevance to Jews are the writings of another religion? The Christian scriptures are so inaccurate about Judaism and Jewish life at the time that no educated Jew is going to take them seriously.
1. We would disagree with you that the Gospels were written by Jews. They were written by Paul.
Jesus' original followers, the Nazarenes, rejected Paul and his version of the Gospels as false. You can look up information on the Nazarenes on line and also in the writings of Maccoby, a scholar whose specialty was that time period. They also wrote that Paul was not Jewish, but a pagan who briefly converted into Saducean Judaism to try to marry a woman who spurned him and then dropped out again.
2. It is a little more nuanced than what you wrote above. To hold Jewish values and think someone might be the messiah is not necessarily so bad. And the Nazarenes and the Pharisees got along quite well for many years. But, the Nazarenes did not change the tenets of Judaism. Paul did. The Christian version of the messiah and basics of religion contradict those of Judaism.
3. Why would you find any reference to not being Jewish in the Gospels? Paul's version of Christianity is grounded in replacement theology, a tactic of co-operation. One of his primary arguments is that "his group" are the "real" Jews and everyone else is false; not that they are a "new" religion. That is just basic persuasion and politics. When bush wanted to cut down trees and make pollution laws more lax he called it the "clean skies initiative." That doesn't mean that it was good for the environment.
4. The Bible was written long before Jesus' time. So, I would not expect to see anything about that time period in it. But, the notion that thousands of Jews became Christians is not so accurate. The Nazarenes were not considered Non-Jews. Paul's Gospels were not "really" working with Jews. He got pagan converts. So, they were not Jews to begin with.
Man, am I getting sick of these lame attempts at converting Jews! I'm Jewish and Jesus means nothing to me and nothing you do or say will ever change that.
I just had to reply to your comment that the four gospels were written by Jews. That's probably not true, it is known, for instance, that Luke was a Greek Physician, so his gospel, written to a friend back home was most likely written in Greek. All of the oldest manuscripts we have are written in Greek, so either the manuscripts written by Matthew, Mark and John were thrown away, or they didn't exist. Since we don't have originals, unless the above is true and Paul wrote all of them, dang, hadn't heard that one before, like it though, you can make any guess you like, though I wouldn't presume one of the Ivrit would have called Y'shua either a son of God, or the Moshiach, or anything close to the way the NT is written.
In Reading many Answers from Jewish Posters-That no one can be a Jew if they believe
