LDS, Mormons about God once being a man and IF so DID he sin?
Mormonism has historically taught, "As man is God once was, as God is man may be."
MANY LDS Prophets have taught that "Heavenly Father" obtained godhood like we can,
he experienced a mortality replete with every thing we are doing, yet still progressed unto exaltation and godhood. That "God is an exalted man."
The LDS church founder, Joseph Smith taught....
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us. Here, then, is eternal life--to know that only wise and true God, and you have got to learn how to become Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you. .. God himself, the father of us all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ."
- The Prophet Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 342-345, also quoted heavily by the church, see Gospel Principles, Chapter 47.
AND then you have...
"Consequently every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter; and every earth, and the people thereof, in their turn and time, receive all that we receive, and pass through all the ordeals that we are passing through." - Brigham Young, "Sin?The Atonement, Etc.", Journal of Discourses, vol. 14, pp. 70-73, July 10, 1870.
So the LDS church says that God was once a man and had a body, and now he has a body of flesh and bone, and had to go through progression and had to do all the things the LDS church says that people must do to be exalted, does this mean that he sinned as a MAN?
So do you think that God was a sinner and needed to repent and progress as members (the LDS Church) believe man can attain?
*Mainstream Christianity says that the Bible teaches that, the atonement is based on the fact that it was accomplished by a God who never, ever sinned... The eternally sinless Father, sent his eternally sinless Son to be a spotless sacrifice.
1. If God once sinned, who forgave his sins?
2.Did your Heavenly Mother perhaps sin in the past?
3.Is a God that once sinned, had to repent and be baptized, priesthood, temple,, and sealed to a wife, and all that Mormon stuff, BE the God of the Bible? (that the LDS church claims to follow)
Can you answer 1,2 and 3?
Thank you.
I just ask this question, because I seen this video, http://vimeo.com/4029628 Where a man was asking LDS members this at a conference or whatever, and the LDS replies were all over the place, many LDS said yes, he was a sinner, some said I think he was a savior of his world, and some groups of members did not know what to say, but the looks on their faces were sure pondering the question being asked. It looks like they did not want to physically say it.
No one can answer your questions, because every form of the bible, (king James, Book of Mormon etc) ALL have contradictions to everything. But if following an imaginary spiritual "god" as you call it makes you feel better then continue on.You silly people and your religions... Good luck..
you do realize this is a lot of speculation, if we assume God once lived as a man then like any other man he would have to repent to his Heavenly Father. if Heavenly Mother sinned she repented like I can repent when I mess up yes He can and could be that is why we say protestants just don't have all the information and when we try to give it to them they say we add to a book, when in fact no book is present.
The thing to know about being Mormon is that it is a personal belief system that approximately 16 million share. To answer 1. God forgave himself. 2. Heavenly Mother did sin. But, remains an eternal virgin. 3. God did repent and was Baptized. He did this when he came as Jesus and was baptized by John.
When Joseph Smith taught the doctrine that God was once a man like us, he said it was "essential to salvation" to know this. http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/kingfolletsermon.htm This doctrine was taught as God-given doctrine for most of LDS history.
Joseph Smith declared, "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345). Joseph Smith also taught that God was not always God when he stated, "We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings, pg. 345).
The 1972 Family Home Evening manual clearly taught this and the doctrine that Mary was impregnated by an exalted man (God the Father). The "exalted man" as God the Father was taught at the conference pulpit as late as 1997. Not much since then as the official stance is that the LDS believe in eternal progression, but beyond that, it's all speculation. That's a lie.
It was after the Godmakers hit the scene that the LDS started to downplay it, relegated to "we just don't know status." That's why Gordon B. Hinckley lied on Larry King and to the Time magazine reporter when he said "I don't know that we teach it; I don't know much about it." It's not even debatable that Hinckley knows this doctrine well. http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon140.htm
If God was once a man like us, he wasn't always God but become one and yes, he would have had to have a Savior like us. And that would apply to the heavenly mother concept. No wonder the real God was very clear that He is "uncreated" "eternally self existent" and as Isaiah 43:10 says, "Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me." That's doesn't leave much room for Joseph Smith's false God.
I'd trade in the Elohim the Sinner God for something much more Biblical. That's what Paul was getting at in Romans 1 to people who had a distorted view of God. In verses 22-23 we read "Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles."
to me the video makes three things VERY clear - 1) that the LDS are willing to accept ALL possibilities when it comes to what God can do or may have done......that is the definition of omnipotent.....2) that it is speculation only with no specific doctrinal answer (it's not LDS doctrine)....and 3) it obviously is not something that imports LDS thought or worship of God.
the LDS proclaim Jesus Christ to be the divine Son of God, the only perfect and sinless person ever to be born on earth.
but consider the scriptures.......
john 5:19
"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seethe the Father do: for what things soever he doth, these also doth the Son likewise."
or
Philippians 2:5-6
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
so it seems that the word of God says the same thing here as the teachings you quote......that Christ has done NOTHING that the Father did not do....and that we are told by Him that we are gods, that we should strive to be like Him, that we are in His form and should acknowledge that.......I don't see how we can be critical of accepting what God's words themselves say.....
so
1. individual thing here --- I personally don't think God once sinned. THAT is a very big "if".....and one that scripture does not provide an answer to.....so speculate away if you should so wish to do so......but that is all it would be - speculation.....and yes, some of us are and others are very much not inclined to speculate on some things.
2. see 1.
3. the LDS do not claim 1 and 2, except it be by personal and individual speculation --- what they do claim is that God is the God of Abraham, Jacob, and isaac. that He is the "I am" of moses. that He is the alpha and the omega for us. that He is the supreme creator and leader of all. that He is perfect and sinless. what we don't know is if that was possibly 'a process'. the fact is that ALL we know of God has been given to us through revelation/His words.....and He just has not seen fit to tell us much about His "past", so obviously it doesn't really matter. apparently God feels that we have enough to do with trying to get ourselves right. and not all LDS accept the ideas of a regression of divine beings (kind of the base premise here).....and LDS doctrine does not provide a clear-cut answer on the idea -- why? likely because it does not play much of a role, one way or the other in worship or thought.
speculation on such requires that we (as finite creatures with limited understanding of infinite principals) apply finite properties to infinities......any belief system of God faces this @some level @some point. that's going to be a flawed analysis no matter how brilliantly it may be attempted......
for the LDS --- there is absolutely nothing about our God?s past that isn?t worthy of our uttermost worship. and I have to point out that even if He did live as we did (andI'm not saying that He did but if He did) and we recognized and accepted that - then would this not show a belief and understanding of the conept of repentance rather than anything else?
This is not something important in LDS thought - I like that frog points out that it is something that shows that the LDS (as she once told me) "do not put God in a box".....IOW I like that the LDS do not limit God in any way - that literally He can do anything.
However, she makes a good point on what the video does indicate - that the LDS are entitled to and often verbalize their own opinions and thoughts.....
I will tell you my personal thoughts on it. None of which have been taught to me or are doctrine. But I think that its possible that God maybe played the role that His son took on this Earth. That maybe he was the savior of another world. Jesus Christ was a man, a mortal, but he lived a sinless life.
As for #1- I have no idea. Anything I answered would be speculation, 100%.
#2- Very possibly. I know of no other person in history of scripture that was supposedly sinless, besides the savior of the world.
#3- I dint think it contradicts anything in the Bible. Obviously it would easily contradict the common understanding of God, which I think a lot of people just take for granted. But again, I really dint know. I will wholeheartedly admit that I do not know. I DO know its not at all pertinent to my respect or love or worship of Him.
Whether he lived sinless eternally, or whether he actually went through the trials we face now and progressed beyond them....I just dint know.
LDS, Mormons about God once being a man and IF so DID he sin?
