LDS: How do you handle folks who say Mormons aren't Christian?
I have a friend whose part of some kind of Protestant Fundamentalist church and he thinks Mormons are not Christians and are going to hell. He'll talk about how LDS beliefs are umbilical. But the thing is the Church has Prophets who give people greater understanding. It isn't as if the Church invents totally new theology, it just brings things into focus. All Mormons pray in the name of Jesus Christ, heck the Church's official name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints! Sounds Christian to me!
The Bible determines what a true Christian is. At John 8:31, Jesus said: "You are truly my disciples if you remain faithful to my teachings." Are the Mormons faithful to the teachings of Jesus? Consider the facts:
Mormons acknowledge that they accept the Bible as the inspired Word of God, but they are quick to qualify their acceptance by saying: ?We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.? This loophole permits them to reject any Biblical statement that conflicts with Mormon teaching. Thus Mormon teachings and writings are made the measuring rod of truth.
Like the Catholic church, which refuses to accept the Bible as the only authority on religious beliefs, Mormons insist that there are other authorities equal to the Bible. This view is vital to any religion that has teachings lacking Biblical support.
Regarding his Father, Jesus Christ said at John 4:24, ?God is a Spirit.? Mormons claim that God is not a spirit but a personage of bone and flesh. ?The thing I want to impress upon you,? said Joseph Smith in the Logan Journal of March 14, 1911, ?is that God is real, a person of flesh and bones, the same as you are and I am. Christ is the same, but the Holy Ghost is a person of spirit.? These three form, in Mormon belief, a trinity or godhead, but not in the same manner as the trinity conceived by Catholicism. The Mormon trinity consists of three distinct personages that are united in purpose. They speak of the three as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.
Mormons point to the Bible statement that man was created in the image of God as proof of their contention that God has a body of flesh and bones, but this conclusion is not in harmony with the Scriptures. Being in the image of God does not mean man and God are similar in substance. Bodies of flesh were designed for life on earth, not for existence in the spirit realm. That is why Paul said: ?The glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort.? (1?Cor. 15:40) Man resembles God because he images God?s attributes, which make man superior to the beasts.
Mormons, like most professed Christians, base their beliefs on man-made doctrines, not on the teachings of Jesus, as outlined in the Bible. So, are Mormons true Christians? Obviously not.
From an atheists point of view, you are both Christians.
Christians though tend to think that other "Christians" who don't practice the same beliefs as they do are not "Christians". I've seen people accuse Catholics as not being Christian as well.
My advice believe what you want and don't let other peoples beliefs affect yours. No one knows anything for a certainty.
If they say they do then they are both ignorant and arrogant.
What I've found is that they really don't know what the church teaches, especially when I ask what they've heard. I will correct their "misunderstanding" or point out instances in the Bible where it teaches the same thing. They speak from a lot of ignorance of the Bible (as well as ignorance of what we teach). At times, I have to establish what constitutes doctrine, practices, and teachings. I also have to point out that books like Bruce R. McConkie's Mormon Doctrine isn't a collection of doctrines, but the first-ever attempt to put together a concordance about religious topics and that it is sadly incomplete and for non-members, misleading. I don't even like to use it as a source for talks and prefer the topical guide (found in the Church-produced King James Version of the Bible). Even though it was widely used to produce institute manuals in the past, the most recent versions (rewritten) no longer reference the work, except in rare instances.
I have one friend who has told me that I'm the only person who can actually back up what I say in the Bible and that all other "Bible thumps", when asked to find the supporting scripture, can't.
So I will mostly ignore the "going to hell" crowd because they will claim that anyone who doesn't believe as they do are "going to hell". Basically, they've created their own definition of Christian and if you don't fit that narrow definition, then your "going to hell".
I hope to visit Seattle later this year to retrieve the study that was done in the late 1960s or early 1970s at the University of Washington on Christian denominations. They compared the teachings and practices against those of the New Testament and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints came in at the top of the list of those who most closely followed the New Testament. The LDS scored somewhere around 96 percent while the next closest was below 80 percent. For having beliefs that are "umbilical", one has to wonder what all the other denominations are teaching...
Fortunately, there aren't many noisy ones. If I happen to run across a question that is asked on here, I'll respond, but in real life, I usually catch the "saved" or "born again" evangelist in a lie and then call them on it. I also like to ask them to read the 25Th chapter of Matthew.
If they claim we have a new doctrine (like eternal progression) I'll reference the Bible. That's where the topical guide is such a good reference. Traditional Christianity has forgotten a lot of practices and teachings that it once had.
Quite simple to be honest. I'd point out that the Pharisees didn't believe Jesus is the Son of God even though He is.
"he thinks Mormons are not Christians and are going to hell."
I love it when people try this. Isn't God the one that decides who goes where? Yes, we are Christians. Not with just the above statement, but it can also be pr oven with the Bible.
"He'll talk about how LDS beliefs are umbilical. But the thing is the Church has Prophets who give people greater understanding."
I'm assuming things such as baptism for the dead. Look up 1 Corinthians 15. Also, John 3:5 says Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
What about people that have never heard of Jesus? A person cannot enter the kingdom of God without being baptized. If someone never heard of Jesus then they couldn't be baptized and they'd be condemned instantly. It is the only church that has biblical structure.
"It isn't as if the Church invents totally new theology, it just brings things into focus."
Very true. People say we teach things that are new and not in the Bible.
John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
People say Christ taught everything he needed to. Christ said he didn't.
"All Mormons pray in the name of Jesus Christ, heck the Church's official name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints! Sounds Christian to me!"
Yep. And I think people misunderstand what the Bible teaches about prayer so people pray to Christ. Jesus taught to pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ.
Something else is how people accuse us of saying Christ isn't God. That's not true. Christ is "our Lord our God" but Christ teaches his Father is the one true God. You notice the scriptures say Christ sits on the right hand of God. He doesn't exactly sit on his own hand does he? Also, the beginning of Ephesians 1:3 says "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ". Think about that, "God and Father of Jesus Christ". When Mary saw Jesus resurrected he said he hasn't returned to his God. On the cross, Jesus exclaimed "My God, my God. Why hast thou forsaken me?" Something else people try to put down is the "As man is God once was." 2 Peter 1:4 says "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." How do we know this doesn't apply to God the Father? Christ also said he only does what he's seen the Father do. People put down the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is actually prophesied of many times in the Bible. If you have anymore questions about the church feel free to email me.
The entire L.D.S. has been pr oven to be a sham made up by a madman! Don't believe me look it up. It is considered a cult. Where is this alleged golden bible given to Joe Smith by an Angel who's name has been changed from early publications. If you stick to the bible your o.k. but come on not a convicted criminal who was a mad man this being the founder of L.D.S. Joe Smith
THE TRUTH HURTS DOESN'T IT!!
I honestly don't care. I believe in my faith and live by the Bible and BoM. I'd never tell a person that their faith system is wrong. Mormons may believe in some crazy things by non-LDS, but it's given me peace and happiness.
Do I take it into of fence, a little. But think about it. I'm Mormon and he's not, why does he care what I believe, I don't give two craps what he does on Sunday. Who is he to say who's Christian and who's not Christian. No one has ever died and come back. He has no right to say my faith is wrong and vice verse.
I simply bear my testimony and witness of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and leave it at that. I have no interest in getting into a long discussion or argument over Semitics. I can hope that they will feel the Spirit bearing a supporting witness of my testimony which will touch them and soften their hearts.
I point out that the definition of a Christian is one who believes in Christ, which we do. I may tell them that exactly half of our hymns are about the Savior, that most of the lessons we teach are on Christ or related to Him, that, as you said, we pray in Christ's name and the official name of our faith includes His name, as well. If they have common sense, they accept that and move on. If they continue insisting I'm not, I move on. If someone is determined to be ignorant, there's not much we can do about it, and there's not much point in getting worked up over it.
I'm sorry that your friend is being so obnoxious. I can't really understand why he's your friend in the first place, though, because what kind of friend is he to refuse to listen to you and to tell you you're going to hell on top of that? That's...unkind and judgmental, and is that really something you'd want in a friend?
I'm sure there are other reasons why you're sticking around this guy even though he's being annoying. Still, if it bothers you that much, then tell him so. Politely explain that you don't appreciate the things he says of you, and for the sake of your friendship, it would probably be better if you simply didn't discuss religion any more. You might invite him to one of our services so he can see how important Christ is to us--take him to Primary. EVERY lesson this year is on Christ!--but if he won't, then again, just ask him not to bring it up around you any longer.
Mormons worship Jesus Christ. And they revere him as the Savior of the world. No one can have eternal life without the Jesus Christ. That is what a Christian is: you worship Jesus Christ.
It does not matter what mankind thinks. It matters what God thinks. Mormons worship God. And God knows it.
The LDS brings "things" into "focus"? LDS "things", yes----for Mormons alone. Its why you have all those many church sponsored/paid employees called apologists. Have to have somewhere to get all your many questions placated and soothed. God forbid you seek the truth of the answers yourselves, asking HIM for such. Have at it, if you must.
Any Christian worth their faith knows better, dear. We study the Word of GOD, which NEVER fails to give the greatest understanding. Not some con-man's imaginative myths. After all these years Mormonism has yet to convince the world they are made of more solidly righteous stuff. Deal. But to answer your question, I pray for them. Each and every day without fail. It doesn't matter they put me down for doing so. I could care less. Just shows I'm doing the job the Lord has led me to, kicking and screaming all the way.
The Church of Satan calls itself a church, too. And....? What's in a name, if that subtlety failed to register.
"What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo called,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title..."
Who cares if they call us Christian or not. I believe we waste a lot of time defending the Title of "christian" when instead we could be declaring our love for Christ. I try to get people I speak with to ignore the labels and look at the doctrine. People stop thinking once they have labeled you.
No . far from Christians . yes its wrong to say they are going to hell . because God is the only one who decides that . the book of Mormon is never in the bible .
ever hear of the term . Wolf in sheep's clothing ?
Joseph Smith was a con man. People paid him money to find treasures. His excuse for not finding treasure was it was guarded by spirits. He was arrested as a "juggler," or "con man." He was brought before a justice of the peace. The judge ascertained that there was enough evidence to try him. This was in Bainbridge, N.Y., in 1826, The judge was Albert Neely. Smith was labeled a "glass looker". The evidence against Smith was sufficient that, if Smith had not left town, he would have been judged guilty. Smith then went on and fabricated the Book of Mormon. He got his idea for the book from Ethan Smith's View of the Hebrews, or "The Tribes of Israel in America".He supposedly used a pair of spectacles to "translate" the plates for the Book of Mormon, friends and relatives said he used the same stone he used in his former money digging scheme.The gold plates never existed according to a witness. An early Mormon convert heard Harris say "I never saw the plates."
Details can be found in "Joseph Smith and the Origins of the Book of Mormon", by David Persuitte.
There has not been found one piece of archaeological evidence to support the story of ancient America found in the Book of Mormon. In the 1950s, the LDS church financed "the largest archaeological project ever funded by a religious institution" It was successful in that it uncovered an enormous amount of archaeological information about ancient America, but as far as providing any evidence for the Book of Mormon, it was a failure. That has not been changed by any subsequent archaeological findings.
In his book, Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church, Simon G. Southerton shows that the American natives show no evidence of Israelite descent, which contradicts what the Book of Mormon says.
Joseph Smith had an eye for women, so he instituted plural marriage and took over 50 wives, some of them the wives of other men.
Mormon doctrine:
God was once a man He has a body of flesh and bone and lives on a planet near the star Kolob. The sun gets its light from the Kolob. God has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her. We can become like God and rule over our own universe. There are many gods. In the highest degree of the celestial kingdom men have more than one wife. A righteous Mormon will see the face of God in the Mormon temple. If a Gentile becomes Mormon, the Holy Ghost actually purges his Gentile blood and replaces it with Israelite blood.
. Jesus was married. Jesus and Satan are brothers, They are our brothers. We are spirit children of Heavenly Father. Jesus was conceived by God by having sex with Mary. We should not pray to Jesus. The "Lord" in the Old Testament is Jesus in the New Testament, but different from "God the Father". Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.
Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "Prue-existence", in which we were tested. Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin or our ancestors sin. If righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned. Not only will humans be resurrected to eternal life, but also all animals.
All humans before the Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah to the eastern hemisphere. Mormons should avoid traveling on water, Satan rules the waters. You can identify a false angel by the color of his hair, or by offering to shake his hand.
American Indians are "descendants of Lehi", but there is not a hint of the Hebrew language in any of the Indian dialects. The Garden of Eden was in Missouri.The Book of Mormon says that Lehi found horses in America. Horses did not exist in the Americas until the 16Th century. The Book of Mormon says that Nephi had a bow of steel. Jews did not have steel in this time period and iron was not smelted in the Americas until Spaniard arrived. The book of Mormon mentions "swords and cimeters." Scimitars were not around until the rise of Islam (500A.D.) The Book of Mormon mentions silk. This did not exist in the Americas at this time.
In D&C 130:3 it says, "The idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false."
Truthfully there's not much you can do besides calmly explaining that Jesus Christ is our Savior. He is the one we worship. It may or may not make a difference because many other congregations are taught exactly what your friend was taught. Just remember to stay calm and share what you believe. If your friend doesn't want to believe it... that's his problem, not yours.
You believe in a different Christ than they do, so they don't think you're a Christian. They do have valid reasons if you actually took the time to look. http://carm.org/is-mormonism-christian Please, read the whole article and pass it around to any other Mormons that wonder about this same question.
When I was Mormon I would get offended because I did try to live what I thought was a Christlike existence. Christ's life and stories are basically the same in the Mormon church as other Christian churches, but there are significant differences that are offensive to Christians. One being that Satan is Jesus's brother. Other Christians denominations think this belief is an abomination.
You may have Christ in the title of your church's name, but to Christians that Christ isn't the same as theirs. It's like the different Ray's pizza joints in New York. They all claim to be Ray's and they all claim to be the original.
LDS: How do you handle folks who say Mormons aren't Christian?
