So, i respect the Mormons being a branch of Christianity, but, Joseph Smith claims he saw Moses, Jesus Christ, God, many other people, i think this is false, no one can see the face of God, it says so in the holy bible, Moses could not even see him. also, he had visions from god? I'm not so sure about that either, and there is a prophet on this earth today? Thomas s Monson, and the twelve apostles? i saw a picture of this and they look like random Caucasians, one thing that i know is true is that there actually is spirit kingdom and celestial kingdom and so on, it says so in the bible, Corinthians to be exact, that kind of appalled me, i always thought that was rubbish. I also respect the things they abide by, like no coffee, soda, and tobacco, having a pure body, that sounds cool, i am actually going by that now. So I'm sorry if i sound ignorant, please, fill me in on some details, or just clarify some things? I'm having trouble believing this church is true, and i pray about it after i read scriptures from the book of Mormon hopefully to feel something, but i don't :/ i am actually praying sincerely too, open hearted maybe this means the church just isn't right for me? sorry about such a long essay on this but i need answers, thank you.
Ono, i always thought it was rubbish about the kingdoms, but since i saw that it was in Corinthians, i was like oh OK this is true. so i dont think it is anymore
ahh, i didnt mean to sound mean saying random caucasians either sorry
Yeah, He claims to have also gone to Yahweh's planet (Kolob), which the only logical explanation I could ascertain out of that, is that Yahweh is either an alien or Joseph Smith was delusional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob
I have a word of advice for you, Follow your heart's true beliefs, the "Ism's" and "Ianity's" are merely blockading you from doing so. The Buddha once said, "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
Joseph Smith was the last prophet for the Mormom Church. They believe that he came to the Americas in the 1800s. Well, I personally don't believe that a prophet would come this late in our history, but if this is their belief than I can't argue with that. If he saw Moses, Jesus Christ, Solomon, or etc in his vision or dream, than that's him. I personally haven't been aware of a prophet that comes so late in history such as Joseph Smith.
Well, Muslims have several things that are forbidden to them, so I wouldn't call Mormons weird or different because of this. Of course, there must be much more behind this because everything has a reason in religion I believe. Its not like Mormons just avoid caffeine for no reason. Caffeine is unhealthy for the body, but why they avoid black coffee I guess is because of this prohibition.
there crazy anything that comes out of their mouth they just eat it up they don't even take the time to see what their really believing but don't forget 90% of them were born and raised into it and alto of them are leaving everyday mainly because they see things that just don't match up.
The bible is the living word of God. When reading ask God for understanding and knowledge of his word. Only God can give us the meaning and understanding of his word, because he is the author. We can not understand things of God or God's word unless God helps us to. Pray and read and the bible will talk to you, it is cool. Through Jesus we are saved by grace and faith that Jesus is who he said he is, the Son of God. Anyway God will show you the truth if you ask and follow him. hope this helps and blessings be with you.
You have just limited God's powers. If God wants to speak to a mortal face to face, He can and does cause it to happen.
And, yes, Joseph not only saw God's face, but his entire body and he saw the Son also. God's glory came over Joseph, allowing him to withstand God's presence without being destroyed.
It you think it's rubbish then you aren't open hearted and sincere about learning about the church. Joseph Smith testified on what he saw, if you don't believe it that's your opinion, but I believe it and 13 million others believe it.
Actually several people have seen God. If not the Father, then also the Son.
The Apostles saw Christ, the Son of God.
Jacob said he saw God:
See Genesis 32: 30
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God cf ace to face, and my life is preserved.
Moses and the Elders did indeed see God
Exodus 24:9-10
9 ? Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Solomon apparently saw God see 1st Kings 11:9
9 ? And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had APPEARED unto him twice,
While a lot of people mistake this No man shall see God with Exodus 33:20 but you have to understand that God was angry at this time. Moses begged the Lord to show himself and the Lord refused as he was angry, He was mostly angry at the Children of Israel for making a Golden Calf and had quickly turned from Him. But the Lord was merciful as well as he did not wish to destroy or kill Moses so he didn't show his face at this time. Which makes sense because I've shown you that even Solomon beheld the Lord God of Israel.
While you may not agree with this interpretation it can be found as well as Joseph in his inspired translation stated:
20. And he said unto Moses, Thou canst not see my face at this time, lest mine anger be kindled against thee also, and I destroy thee, and thy people; for there shall no man among them see me at this time, and live, for they are exceeding sinful. And no sinful man hath at any time, neither shall there be any sinful man at any time, that shall see my face and live.
23. And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen as at other times; for I am angry with my people Israel.
There actually is some degree of contradiction in the bible if you read the verse that says that no man can see the face of God and live without allowing a way for it to happen and men to live because that verse was written by Moses, who saw God and spoke to him "face to face as a man speaker with his friend".
Moses did see him; many in the New Testament saw Him, Stephen saw Christ sitting on the right hand of the Father, and the list goes on an on.
One must either view the bible as contradictory and flawed or accept that there must be a way of quickening or changing a man to allow him to see God as many in the bible did in fact see God.
As far as being a modern day prophet - why not? as far as them being normal looking men, who else would they be.
Again I suggest you look at the bible as their prophets were often the least likely to be prophets and chosen by their hearts, not looks. Isaiah even prophesied that the Lord would have "no natural beauty about him" that would draw men to Him based on looks, but based on His spirit.
As far as knowing if the church is true it's easier than most think.
Alma 32 talks about faith being a seed in our hearts and knowing that it's real by it growing. Alma 33 speaks of moving forward on that faith and how easy it is.
Lots of people pray to feel something incredible, many want some mighty vision, many want some angelic appearance. When the easy answer is as easy as it was for people to look on the staff of Moses to be healed (read about that in Alma 33). People miss their answers because they are expecting something huge and exotic when the attraction to read the Book of Mormon is your answer already.
You already have a testimony, you just don't realize it. You feel like continuing to read, you feel like praying, you want to know more. You do these things, and you want these things because the church is true and that true seed is growing in your heart already.
Actually, the desire to pray about the church in and of itself is an answer that it's true - otherwise you wouldn't have felt the desire to even be on your knees praying in the first place.
Keep going, you already have a testimony, for you the next step isn't gaining one but growing and noticing the one you already have and then acting on it.
Joseph smith was not the last prophet but, the first.
i myself have seen visions of several prophets. including a few bomb prophets.
i see dreams of people who die
i see dreams/visions of people while they are alive.
at least one vision of an old testament prophet seemed to recognize me as I recognized him.
i have also seen by visions at least one recently deceased prophet and because of the other i think he saw me too
visions happen. dreams that are not of our own "self" happen.
so i believe fully that Joseph Smith Jr was ordained under the hands of James, peter and john and john the baptist. Jesus himself met Abraham and at least 2 prophets before he was crucified.
Finding the truth is a personal journey. Don't just give up because you haven't received an answer yet from your prayers, God is listening but he will give His answer in his own time and in His own way. The answer sometimes isn't a warm fuzzy feeling you get, for others it is completely different. When I feel the spirit I not only feel good but it makes sense in my mind, it is hard to explain but when you feel it you will know. I just want to encourage you to keep on going and testify to you that you will get your answer.
You spent the first half of that paragraph talking about things of the church you think are false, and in the second half you talk about praying with an open heart.
If you're sticking to the Prue-conceived notion that Joseph Smith couldn't have talked to God, you aren't asking with an fully open heart.
This isn't a church that you can only half believe in.
Simply because someone is having trouble believing something doesn't mean they aren't sincere or honest in their search for truth. It just means that they're having trouble believing something. And that's perfectly OK. God expects us to use our ability for critical reasoning, not just to blindly accept what someone tells us is true.
The LDS church has many positive things going for it - a good code of health, strong emphasis on service to others and strong families, and belief in our savior, Jesus Christ. There are some things about Mormonism that I have trouble believing too, and I was born and raised in the Mormon church and am an active Mormon.
I would suggest reading the whole book of Mormon and checking out the church's website, which has many questions about our basic beliefs at WNW.lds.org
Why then, does Moses and the Bible, record many talking with God "face-to-face?" Its all in the BIBLE.
Exodus 33:11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaker unto his friend.
The prophet Isaiah saw the Lord
Isaiah 6: 5 ? Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
Stephen saw God and his SOn, Jesus Christ...together..
Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
One has to be "quickened" by the Spirit in order with withstand the glory of God. Prophets have that experience so that they can.
As a convert, I kind of understand where you are coming from. It can be tough to really Know that you Know.
Perhaps you should not pray for a testimony (since it appears you already have one- you accept our basic tenets as truths) but perhaps pray for a confirmation that Joseph really did see God and that the apostles are called by Him to do His work.
More directly, perhaps you should pray about what God wants you to do.
Explain your reservations and fears, explain your desires and ask God to confirm the truth to you. He will do it if you are willing to act on what you learn.
For me personally, I asked if this church was His and if He wanted me to join it. He answered me in a way that I was confident of. The answers are different for everyone- burning, visions, dreams, confident feeling, etc... You just need to learn how you feel His spirit.
There weren't many prophets who saw God face to face, it's true, but it did happen.
1. Adam obviously spoke with God in the Garden of Eden.
2. In Genesis (chapters 32 and 35), Jacob saw God at least twice. There might be more times that I've forgotten about.
3. In Exodus 24, God appeared to over seventy people, including Moses.
I'm sure there were others.
It's understandably hard for us to imagine ever seeing God's face. He's so far above us that the idea is incomprehensible...and it shouldn't be. After all, He's our Father. He loves us as His children, and what Father would make it impossible for His children to ever see Him? If we don't usually in this life, it's probably only because we need to learn on our own, and it would be hard to make our own decisions if God were always with us.
In any case, aren't we all promised that we'll be with God in the next life? We'll ALL see Him then, so what would really stop God from showing Himself to us now? I don't think anyone would ever argue that God isn't ABLE to show Himself. Of course He can. Again, the fact that He usually doesn't is probably just a test of our faith.
So why not Joseph Smith? If he was truly a prophet, if he truly did restore Christ's church to the earth, wouldn't it make sense that he'd have to KNOW, not just believe, in the existence and divinity of God and Christ?
Yes, Moses and John both taught that we can't see God's face...but Moses also said that we can't see Christ's face and live, and didn't Moses later do exactly that? Again, many others have also seen Christ's face--Jacob, over seventy people along with Moses, and all that even before He was born. Paul saw Him after His death, as did crowds numbering in the hundreds. For prophets, speaking with Christ, seeing His face...it was almost common.
Was Moses wrong, then? Of course not. The point Moses was trying to make is that those who do not have the spirit of God with them can't see Christ's face. They're not worthy, and it would be too much for them. Those with the spirit, though, such as a prophet like Moses, would be able to do so.
It's the same with God. Those who are under His protection and have the Holy Ghost with them are able to witness things the rest of us couldn't handle. Joseph Smith was included in this group--he was protected and was able to be an extraordinary witness of our divine Father.
As for the visions...why not? It's not as though visions haven't been given to people in the past. Just read your Bible--so many prophets and even those who weren't prophets were given revelations through visions. Haven't you read the Book of Revelations? Most of what John wrote came to him through visions. If it weren't for visions, the gospel wouldn't have been spread to the Gentiles by Paul.
And why couldn't we have a prophet today? If God has always called prophets--and the Bible is proof that He has--why would He suddenly stop, especially when we need them so badly? After all, while the words of past prophets teach amazing lessons, I don't think Moses had to deal with pornography and international wars and all the rest that we have today that he didn't back then. We need a modern prophet to guide us through modern problems.
Yes, Monson looks like a random Caucasian...but I've met him, and I have no doubt at all that he's a prophet of God. When he speaks, the Holy Ghost is incredibly present. He is absolutely a prophet.
I don't know why you're not getting an absolute confirmation that the LDS church is true. Maybe it's not the right time in your life. Maybe you're expecting the appearance of angels and so are missing the answer you actually are receiving. When I prayed for this same thing, it took me weeks to realize that I'd been getting an answer all along. I just hadn't been as open as I'd thought, and I wasn't paying attention. Keep trying until you know either way.
And you know, it might not hurt for you to contact the missionaries. They can answer your questions--or find someone who can--and I'm sure they'll be of much more use to you than I am.
Your right that this is false! Looking upon the face of God's righteousness in this life will burn out your eyes! Beware of any one making such a claim!
God has talked to me! His voice is the most soothing, calming and peaceful sound in all the universe!
Stephen the Martyr saw Jesus standing by God. He was murdered for his testimony. Joseph Smith, Jr., saw Jesus standing by God. He was murdered for his testimony.
Now if you believe that Jesus is God, or part of God, then how could his believers see him, touch him, and feel the wounds of the nails and the spear in his body, if people cannot see God? Something to think about there.
Gen. 32:30
Ex. 19:11
Ex. 24:11
Ex. 33:11
Num. 12:8
Deut. 34:10
Judges 13:22 (They didn't die right away)
Matt. 11:27
There are others, but this ought to suffice. The truth is that an evil person cannot endure God's presence, and a good person can endure God's presence only (a) as an immortal spirit; (b) as a resurrected, and thus immortal, being; or (c) transfigured as Moses, Peter, James, and John were when they were in the presence of divine beings -- when Jesus judges that seeing the Father is best for us.
Notice that Jesus refused to satisfy Philip's idle curiosity. Jesus said, basically, if you want to know what God looks like, take a good look at me. (Family resemblance, plus we were all created in God's image anyway.)
As previously pointed out, there are many examples in the Bible describing someone seeing God, and some even talked with Him.
As for the answer to your prayers - that will come in its' own due time. God doesn't always answers prayers immediately. I have actually heard stories of converts who prayed for months to find out if the church was true until finally getting an answer. Also, remember to ponder everything you read and learn from the scriptures. While in the state of pondering, you are more susceptible to the spirit.
I hope this helps. I testify that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church. I know this because of the answers to my prayers, and I know that you can receive your answers too.
According to contemporary church sources, Joseph Smith never saw God.
The church?s newspaper, Messenger and Advocate (vol. 1, no. 5, February 1835, p. 78), Oliver Cowdery wrote the following for the education of church members about Joseph Smith?s 'First Vision' (emphasis in caps is mine):
"This would bring the date down to the year 1823....[Joseph] continued to call upon the Lord in secret for a full manifestation of divine approbation, AND FOR, TO HIM, THE ALL IMPORTANT INFORMATION, IF A SUPREME BEING DID EXIST, to have an assurance that he was accepted of [H]I'm." Smith would later claim that he saw God in 1820, if that were so why would be still be wondering if God existed three years later?
The first official history of the Mormon Church was published in Messenger and Advocate in Dec. 1834 (vol.1, no.3). It included the following key elements of Smith's 'First Vision':
- Happened at age 17 (1823)
- A revival stirred in JS a desire to "know for himself of the certainty and reality of pure and holy religion."
- JS desired to know if a Supreme being did exist, and wanted manifestation that his sins were forgiven.
- JS was in his bedroom
- JS had a vision of an angel
- JS was told sins were forgiven and Lord would do a work through him
- JS was told about the gold plates and their location
No Spring-of-1820-visit-to-the-woods. No sinister, dark force that overpowered JS and almost destroyed him. No visit by 'Heavenly Father' and 'Jesus Christ'. No being told that all churches and religions were abominations as far as God was concerned, and no command from 'the Lord' to JS that he not join any sect. In other words, just one more fictional story from the 'Prophet of the Restoration'.
joseph smith really seeing face of god?
I testify that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church. I know this because of the answers to my prayers, and I know that you can receive your answers too.
