LDS Mormons Do you believe Joseph Smith?? That God was a man?
DO YOU believe Joseph Smith?
This in connection to my question about if God had a human mother?
Quote...
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...........It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God........yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible...." (from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and History of the Church, 6:302-17)
SO GOD (according to Mormonism) dwelt on (AN) the EARTH.
one more question,
Can Thomas Monson change this teaching of Joseph Smith's??
There have been so many other Mormon "prophets" that have really pretended not to "know" much at all about BASIC Mormonism.
This I find are the answers given to the public.
The, "I don't know we teach that"
and, "I really wouldn't say that."
No real answers...
Josh, are you the Capitals police??
Why do you answer any YA question with a complaint?
Just dint ANSWER.
(there I go again)
Man I agree. Reminded me of John 3:16. That God sent "his Son." He humbled himself to become like one of his own creations. With the use of the Holy Spirit.
Ex. 3:14.
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Caedmon, Great info! Why take something out that Joseph Smith Himself taught and included in scripture? That is questionable...
Ms. Stevie, I respect your views, (not agree with *all*)
because you are straight forward and do not sugarcoat. Thats huge.
To quote another response to your first question: "What your seeking is a question that is standing right on the precipice of that which has been revealed and that which has not yet been revealed.
"The quote "as man is, god once was.." is, as you state, an accepted piece of Mormon doctrine, and so the answer seems apparent and obvious to you, me, and any other Mormon who deemed it important enough to ponder.
"But although that may be true, the specifics about God's existence before the earth was formed HAS NOT been revealed and hence its all just theory and conjecture based on the quotes you stated above."
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That said, I accept the teachings of Joseph Smith and the couplet expressed by President Snow to be valid expressions of our belief. As the other responder said, there are many things that have not been revealed and the details simply are not there.
You have noted that LDS teach that God dwelt on _an_ earth. As I said in my previous response, "One thing is certain. If God was once like man, it wasn't in this creation. You are dealing with things far beyond the mortal sphere and universe we now inhabit."
As to President Monson, it isn't a case of "could," but "would." My answer is that it would be very unlikely.
Consider this: Jesus told his followers that "when you have seen me, you have seen the father," and "I have done nothing except that which I have seen the father do."
Since Jesus was mortal (he was killed/martyred and declared dead and buried), it sure looks like he is saying that his father (God) went through the same process.
To be a Mormon who believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Not the Savior or the Messiah, just a man that was called of God to re instate his church and priesthood back on the earth. We do not worship Joseph Smith.
Remember the church is perfect, the members aren't.
Thomas S. Monson is the current living prophet. If he receives revelation from God (just as with prophets of old) and God tells him to change or add something, then he must do it.
Joseph Smith is not a God. He was a prophet of God preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. President Thomas S Monson is now today's Latter-Day prophet of the church and he is doing a very great job.
1. Yes, Joseph Smith was and is a prophet of God. He received revelations from Christ to restore His Church upon the earth.
2. The principle that troubles you is called the law of eternal progression. As man is, God once was and as God is, man may become. God receives glory by the progress of His children just as we mortal parents receive praise for the accomplishments of our children here on earth.
The fact that we don't know about God's past is because that was considered irrelevant for us to know during mortality. It is not relevant to what we need to know and do in order to succeed in mortality. There are certain things we need to know and learn in order to return to our Heavenly Father, and worrying about His past is not one of them.
3. Pres. Monson can only do what the Lord tells him to do. It would indeed be shocking if the Lord were to change such a basic doctrine as that law of eternal progression.
As soon as you do your ALL CAPS THING and add to what it said you change the meaning slightly at which point I need to say "I don't know".
However, Joesph Smith is quoting the bible, but for some reason you fail to include that. In it's inclusion there are many ways of interpreting what's being said, one of which is what you think it said.
What's the right answer? I don't give that much thought because I don't know if that's important to me. I know God lives and loves me. What experiences He had prior to my knowledge is as relevant as asking what His favorite type of pizza is. I guess it doesn't matter to me.
By the way, good question (by good I mean based on what you ask this is relatively good), your last one was really stupid compared to this.
Your base Misconception: Mormons believe God is a man.
No. It is arrogant to define God as human, and the LDS do not define God as such........but we do believe man is of God's species.
What We actually believe:
God is exalted, glorified - far more superior than mortal man can conceive. He has a body similar to ours but better - perfect.
God is perfect. God's work is to save and exalt His children, and provide them with an opportunity to have all that He has.
LDS doctrine does not include any knowledge of God's method of procreation. All of us, including Jesus and Lucifer, were God's premarital children.
God has not deemed it necessary to provide us with details of His past - so we do not worry about it.
Yes -We believe in all of our prophets past and present -and Yes We believe we were created in Gods image -Therefor -He is Human also-aka= Man. Yes-Pres. Monson can add or change the teachings if God tells him to. He is a Prophet.
Phrog has given you an excellent and informed answer (not that you would ever be fair enough to recognize that). So has Rac. Your initial conceptions are inflammatory and incorrect - but I believe you know that. I believe that you are intentionally obtuse so that you can further your own agenda, and are not really looking for knowledge at all.
Heavenly Father(God) is the Father of all. Nothing in that quote said that He had a mother. Heavenly Father's Son, Jesus Christ, had an earthly mother, Mary. No doubt that Heavenly Father has dwelt on Earth before though. And no, Thomas Monson can not change the teachings of Joseph Smith....there is no reason to change the teachings of Joseph Smith.
Joseph Smith and Thomas Monson are not God and are not worshiped. They are prophets of the Lord.
This doctrine was taught in LDS lesson manuals and from the General Conference pulpit as late as 1997. As a faithful Mormon I heard this taught at Stake Conferences as well. Visiting Apostle and General Authority Bruce R. McConkie taught that God the exalted man had sex with Mary to produce Jesus.
My faithful Mormon brother, a High Priest says that I'll probably be a ministering angel to him as he presides over worlds without end. In other words, when he's exalted and becomes God, I'll serve him as sort of mini-hell. I wish I were making this up.
I don't know what Monson is up to, nor do I have the least bit of respect for the careful wordsmithInagar the Mormons on this question. Look at the quote above. Founding prophet Joseph Smith said that it is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainly the character of God, then goes on to describe God's origins. And you really want us to believe he was speculating? That he can't be held accountable for a belief that has been believed and taught as essential truth by most LDS prophets until the last 20 years? And that Gordon Hinckley really didn't know much about this as he tried to get the public to believe in his Time magazine interview?
Try honesty. If you want to change this belief, own up and say, yes we thought this was right, but we don't really know now. Peace. That strikes me as much closer to the truth rather this abominable PR mentality you all have that you must promote the faith over the trampled face of your own history. Sooner or later, you loose all credibility and control when the faithful start doing their own research.
Also, no Christian believes that Jesus was created. No one. Emmanuel means God with us. It doesn't mean, a Sprite child like us became God through obedience to ordinances and laws. May I suggest a Biblical upgrade to the Jesus who was God who came into human history to die the death we should have died? You'll find it's much easier to worship Jesus as God when you realize He's much bigger than you ever imagined through your Smith-colored glasses.
Jesus Christ was [a] God before he became Man. Most Christians believe this. I as well.
"God became man so that man might become God."
St. Athanasius of Alexandria
As a Mormon, I believe he probably followed the same progression his Father did, i.e. God the Father of Christ was God before he became a Man. Of this I am not certain.
In any event, my belief differs from the literal statement made by Joseph Smith to the extent that we were not Gods prior to becoming men. He does not go into it like that.
The last question can be answered simply by stating that we believe in an open canon...?line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little?...what God has given us is not all He has to give.
I believe he has revealed through his prophets that previous doctrines enunciated by his church leaders were in fact false (e.g. Blacks and the priesthood prior to 1978), so if God deemed it necessary to correct Joseph Smith through Thomas Monson, he could certainly do so.
One of the members above thought it unimportant to know these things. Another said it is considered irrelevant for us to know these things. I totally disagree.
Another stated the Church is perfect. As long as the church is comprised of imperfect men, it will not be perfect.
When Joseph Smith said: "It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God"...he was saying it is relevant and important to ponder these things and question..."ask and ye shall receive..."
Doctrinely, my views are close to those of Old timer too.
The teaching that God was once a man and that men can become Gods is a cornerstone of LDS theology. To claim otherwise is disingenuous. Your quote is an accurate reflection of LDS theology. Here are two more:
The LDS manual Gospel Principles states: ?The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: "When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel?you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. . . it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave". . .This is the way our Heavenly Father became God.
ALL EXALTED MEN BECOME GODS. To believe that Adam is a god should not be strange to any person who accepts the Bible?. Joseph Smith taught a plurality of gods, and that man by obeying the commandments of God and keeping the whole law will eventually reach the power and exaltation by which he also will become a god. (Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.97 - p.98).
The teaching the God was once a man and that men can become Gods is not a Biblical teaching. Ironically, it's not in the Book of Mormon, either. The Book of Mormon actually agrees with the Bible on this point. The Book of Mormon also teaches that God is a Spirit. In Alma 18:26-28, we read as follows: "And then Ammon said: Believest thou that there is a Great Spirit? And he said, Yea, And Ammon said: This is God."
The Book of Mormon teaches that Christ was God Himself manifest in the flesh. In Mosiah 15:1, 2 and 5 we read: "... God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. And because he dweller in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son.... And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God...."
Also, in 1835 the "Lectures on Faith," which were originally delivered before a class of the elders, in Kirtland, Ohio, were printed in the Doctrine and Covenants. In these lectures it was definitely stated that God the Father was a personage of spirit, not a man with a physical body.
In the fifth lecture we find this statement about the Godhead: "... the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fullness, the Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle... "(Doctrine and Covenants, 1835 ed., p.53).
The Lectures on Faith not only taught that God the Father is a "personage of Spirit," but also that God is "omnipresent"?i.e., present everywhere at the same time (Ibid., pp.12, 26).
Joseph Fielding Smith admitted that Joseph Smith helped prepare these lectures: "Now the Prophet did know something about these Lectures on Faith, because he helped to prepare them, and he helped also to revise these lectures before they were published ..." (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.195).
These Lectures on Faith were printed in all of the early editions of the Doctrine and Covenants, but in 1921 they were completely removed and have not appeared in subsequent editions. John William Fitzgerald, who wrote his thesis at BYU, asked Joseph Fielding Smith why they were removed from the Doctrine and Covenants. One of the reasons given was that they were not complete as to their teachings regarding the Godhead. Actually, these lectures were considered complete with regard to their teachings concerning the Godhead at the time they were given. On page 58 of the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants the following question and answer appear: "Q. Does the foregoing account of the Godhead lay a sure foundation for the exercise of faith in him unto life and salvation? A. It does."
Now that the Mormon church teaches a plurality of Gods and that men become Gods, these lectures are considered "not complete" as to their teachings on the Godhead. The truth of the matter is that they contradict what is presently taught by church leaders with regard to this subject.
To avoid "confusion and contention" over the Godhead the Mormon leaders quietly removed the Lectures on Faith from the Doctrine and Covenants. This was done in spite of the fact that Joseph Smith himself had considered them important enough to include. Since these lectures were about seventy pages long, this amounted to a major deletion. On page 345 of his thesis, "A Study of the Doctrine & Covenants," Mr. Fitzgerald supplies this information: "The 'Lectures on Faith' were voted on unanimously by the conference assembled August 17, 1835 to be included in the forthcoming book of doctrine and covenants. The writer could find no documentary evidence that they were voted on by a general conference of the Church to be omitted in the 1921 and all subsequent editions of The Doctrine [and] Covenants."
It is interesting to note that the three witnesses to the Book of Mormon finished t
The idea that "God was once a man" is not well established in Mormonism. Mormons, like many other Christian denominations (specifically the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic branches of Christianity), do believe in "thesis," the idea that man can progress to become more like God. Historically, this concept (which was had among the earliest Christians) has led some Mormons to speculate that if Man can become like God, perhaps God was once a man.
While this idea is interesting, it is not well-established in Mormon theology. I would classify it as "a theological question," not an official "Mormon doctrine." Gordon B. Hinckley, a recent president of the LDS Church, was asked this very question on several occasions. Here are some of his responses (verbatim or reported):
"There was a little couplet coined, 'As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.' Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about...Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly. We believe that the glory of God is intelligence and whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the Resurrection."
"President Gordon Hinckley says the concept of God having been a man is not stressed any longer, but he does believe that human beings can become [more like God] in the afterlife."
"On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain. ?I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it...I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."
That having been said, I'm sure you can find Mormons who do believe God was once a man and that He had a Creator/Father/God. I personally am skeptical. It's not something that is often spoken of in Church; I think I've only heard the concept mentioned a few times in Church during the entire 27 years I've been a member.
To hear two Mormon theologians with differing opinions debate this topic, visit http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/2007/08/27/theology-with-blake-ostler/
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because I prayed and asked God which church was His. As I have gone along that simple testimony has been strengthened but despite that I still have my doubts. But that is where faith comes in. I need to have faith in God's ability to answer my prayers and then when things get tough I simply need to endure. Christ Himself was taken to the point that he asked God to find another way if possible. What he did for us took all that he had. How can I expect any better? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's church once again restored to the earth, and that is all that I am concerned about. I know that its members are not perfect but I am not concerned about finding a church with perfect people in it, I am concerned about being a member of God's church. If you look in the Old Testament you can find a detailed record of how flawed and imperfect God's chosen people can be. What does that tell me? It tells me that God is working with us at our level to help us become like him. It tells me that God loves and understands us. It tells me that no matter what I do, as long as I am willing God will be willing to help me. I know it won't be easy but that doesn't matter. I'm not after easy. I am after following God.
LDS Mormons Do you believe Joseph Smith?? That God was a man?
