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Old 05-16-2008, 01:12 AM
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Default Joseph Smith a False prophet?

How do you know Joseph Smith isn't a False Prophet?
If Joseph Smith Was a false prophet
then would that make the book of Mormons teachings false?
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:12 AM
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Yes
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:12 AM
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It's blatantly obvious that he was nothing more than a simple con man.
We have a very clear understanding of the origins of Native Americans. The B.o.m suggests that they descend from the Israelites seeing how "Nephi" was supposedly an Israelite, unfortunately for Joe and his deluded followers modern genetics has pr oven without a shadow of a doubt that this claim is a steaming pile of horse sh!t
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Old 05-21-2008, 01:12 AM
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We might as well wonder if Jesus (assuming he even existed in the first place) was a false prophet. Other religions seem to think so.

How, exactly, do you objectively distinguish between a "true prophet" and a "false prophet"?
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Old 05-23-2008, 01:12 AM
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No such thing as a prophet, just some loon uttering crazy talk in hopes you will buy into it and feed his ego, and the rest are con men.
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:12 AM
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Anyone claiming to be a prophet, is false.
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Old 05-31-2008, 01:12 AM
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Sure he was false. Just look at all the evidence that proves he was a very dishonest man.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:12 AM
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Yes.
He was arrested for fraud.
Yes.


The arrest was for conning people out of money by pretending to have magic powers. If you lost something, he would take your money, "peep" into a supposedly magic stone in his hat, and then try to find the lost item. Since psychic powers, magic, etc are phony, he was arrested for fraud. Magic is an occult art condemned in the Bible as well. A real prophet would not do something that evil.

Smith claimed that a flaming salamander appeared with the golden plates written in Reformed Egyptian (a nonexistent language) that he supposedly translated by using the magic stone in the hat trick. Then TA-DAH the magic salamander and the magic golden plates conveniently disappeared before anyone else could see him. Smith's magic stone remained, but that was proved to be not magical.

Smith later claimed to have a copy of the "Book of Abraham" that he supposedly translated with the magic stone. This scroll fragment was examined and found to be a fragment of the Egyptian Book Of The Dead which had nothing to do with Abraham and did not match Smith's supposed "translation" via magic stone.

And we could go on and on, but that should be enough to expose Joseph Smith as a con man, a fraud, and a false prophet.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:12 AM
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Yes.
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:12 AM
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Oh yeah! that crap is straight up retarded
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Old 06-08-2008, 01:12 AM
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Prophets were never real
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Old 06-12-2008, 01:12 AM
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Yes Joe was a false prophet and the book of Mormon is false teachings
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Old 06-13-2008, 01:12 AM
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I think Joseph Smith falls under the category of a clever divisor of tales as mentioned by the Apostle Peter. 2 Peter 1.16 "For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty." LDS can spin that none of his prophecies have been pr oven false because those that have not occurred are future. He did really mess up when he said that the United States would be involved in a civil war [which everyone with any knowledge knew] which would go world wide.
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Old 06-16-2008, 01:12 AM
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Yes! Many will be found 'wanting' with a Bible in their hands
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:12 AM
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The LDS refer to Smith as a prophet.
Now, go ask a Mormon which of his prophecies ever came true?

The answer is none, but not for the reason you think.
Joseph Smith really didn't prophesy about anything.

He was actually not a prophet at all.

The teachings of the LDS are already in question, based upon Paul's letter to the Galatians, chapter 1, verses 6 to 9 (Galatians 1:6-9)
[This would be the same passage that brings the teachings of Islam into question. ]
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:12 AM
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check out WNW.exmormon.org
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Old 06-21-2008, 01:12 AM
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Joe Smith is as false a prophet as any other prophet.
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:12 AM
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Based on what he prophesied and what actually has happened, or is true, than yes he was false prophet.
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:12 AM
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How do I know? :-)

I know it by the power of the Holy Ghost, by the peace and joy it brings into my heart. It isn't something I can pull out and hand you or show you. It is from repeated spiritual experiences. People can argue about what Joseph did, or did not, do, but it comes down to reading the Book of Mormon, of praying about it and finding out for yourself if it contains God's word, and to reading or hearing Joseph's account of his Vision of God the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ, and praying to know if it truly happened, or not. But one has to want to know and be willing to act accordingly if you learn it is true. If you aren't willing to act on that knowledge, God usually isn't going to force this knowledge on you.

You can say that one can never know what one cannot see, nor touch, nor taste, etc.; that there's "evidence" that Joseph's teachings are false, but if you aren't willing to read what he's written, study it out and ask God, you can't know.

Can you truly ever explain to another what something tastes like to you? If salt were rare and someone had never tasted it, or refused to taste it, can you manage to help them understand what salt tastes like? So, too, it is with spiritual learning--if you aren't willing to taste it, you can't.

I know that Joseph Smith did see our Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Ghost, and thus I know that he isn't a false prophet.

In response to the claim that none of Joseph's prophecies have come to pass, :-) I'd like to simply share two with quotes and one other:

D&C 87: 1
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; (Revelation given on December 25, 1832.)
.
D&C 130: 12
12 I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina. (Given on April 2, 1843)

Both of these were given long before Fort Sumpter occurred. :-)

He also prophesied that the Saints (Mormons) wouldn't be able to stay in Nauvoo, but would eventually need to move to the Rocky Mountains.

There are more, but I decided to simply quote the two regarding the coming of the Civil War.


Additionally in response to Mike's pointing out that the Civil War didn't spread to all lands, the prophecy states in Doc. and Cov. 87:
" 2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.
3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations."

This didn't mean that this war would lead to a world war, but that from that time forth, war would be poured out in all lands. One has only to look around to see this happening, which is a cause of sorrow to many, including the Lord, but He was letting us know that this was the beginning of there being wars (Amos 3:7--7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealed his secret unto his servants the prophets.)

We don't have to agree on this, but I hope that you are willing to look at what was said in this light.
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Old 06-30-2008, 01:12 AM
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How can we tell if a prophet is from God? The Bible asks the same question:
Deuteronomy 18:21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?"

The answer is in the next verse:
Deuteronomy 18:22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

The test is accurately predicting the future 100 percent of the time, because only God can do that. This is a very simple test that God gave us. It is also very serious. In verse 20, it says that any false prophet should be put to death.

Does Nephi pass the test? The Book of Mormon is supposed to have restored the gospel that was corrupted. 1 Nephi 13:26 said that the early church removed plain and precious parts of the Bible. This prophecy was given around 600 BC. 2 Nephi 29:6 goes on to say that I'm a fool if I only trust in the Bible.

The Dead Sea Scrolls were written before this. We can compare the Dead Sea Scrolls with our modern Bibles and see any changes. The changes are very very minor. The main message has remained intact. We have thousands of very early copies of the New Testament as well, because Christianity spread fast and everyone wanted a Bible. If a scribe tried to remove a part, it would stand out like a sore thumb. Nephi's prophecy did not come to pass.

Joseph Smith said in 'History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189', "and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh--even fifty-six years should wind up the scene.
Fifty six years came and went. The coming of the Lord did not come and "The scene" did not wind up.

Joseph Smith prophesied in Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31 that the temple would be built in Missouri within his generation. You can go to the temple lot today and see that it's an empty lot with just grass.

Cindy - You only mentioned part of the prophecy. D&C 87:2 goes on to say the civil war would spread to all nations. That didn't happen and this is another failed prophesy.

I encourage the same test for the prophets of the Bible. The only one that did not come to pass that I can tell is in Jonah 3:4 On the first day, Jonah started into the city. He proclaimed: "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned."

There's a very good reason though. God keeps his promises.
Jeremiah 18:7-8 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, (8) and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned.

RoscoKoff would be interested in looking into any failed prophesies of the Bible that you know of. Do you know of a link, or have a list? I'm also interested in your opinion of Deuteronomy 18. Should we ignore it? Thanks.
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:12 AM
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If you study Mormon history you get one version. Study historic history you get another. They already ripped the BOM apart page by page, they know where he got the info to write the book. What was known in the 1880's and today have put Smith in a category of story teller. Mormons tell their members not to look at what they call anti-Mormon propaganda but that is where the facts are. To learn what is or isn't in any religion at least read stories of ex members. Some truth to it.
http://contenderministries.org/mormonism/bomproblems.php
http://www.exmormon.org/stories.htm
http://www.exmormonscholarstestify.org/ken-clark.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon164.html
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:12 AM
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i know he was a true prophet. i know the book of Mormon is true, read it prayed, felt and received my own answer it was true i encourage everyone else to do the same. it can happen to you.

read the book an uneducated farm boy couldn't have made up such scripture he was commanded to translate plates and did so with gods help. find out for yourself if its true and read it
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:12 AM
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Read the Book of Mormon. If the Book of Mormon is true, then Joseph Smith was a true prophet.

Jesus taught that we would know true prophets from false prophets by their fruit. (Matthew 7:20)

Although they are called prophets, because they do make prophecies (Joseph included), it is not their defining role. The calling of a prophet is to represent God before mankind. All good things come from God. God reveals things that are otherwise unknown to man. It is a simple question to ask whether we are better for the knowledge. One of the fruits of a true prophet is that by following his council, we can have a better relationship with God. By their fruits, ye shall know them.

Mike Matney- Many prophets had failed prophecies. Jonah is the bicentennial example. Prophecies are usually depend ant upon whether people repent, or whether they follow the instructions of God. God never promised to build the Temple in Missouri himself.
The prophecy on the Civil war states that the treaties between nations would lead to a world war, not that the civil war would become a world war. It was 100% correct in that regard. It is a truly remarkable prophecy printed 30 years before the Civil war. It is just one of many great prophecies given by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Here is a list of Joseph's fulfilled prophecies:
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_prophecies.shtml
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:12 AM
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Let me put it this way:

Have you ever heard of word prints? In a nutshell, everybody has a writing style that is unique to them, just like their fingerprints. Several years ago, the FBI worked with several university professors to develop a system that would find the patterns that would identify specific word prints and allow them to track criminals, much in the same way studying fingerprints are used (this scientific method was originally developed to track down the Unabomber, and while it wasn't used in that particular case - his own brother turned him in before the system was completed - the FBI still uses it in its investigations to this day).

Why do I bring this up?

Because a few years back, a group of scientists took this method and applied it to both the Book of Mormon and known writings of both Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery (who served as scribe during most of the translation of the BoM), and do you know what they found? They found that neither Joseph nor Oliver could have written the Book of Mormon! So it leads to the question that if Joseph was not a true prophet, how could he have written more than 500 pages of something that a *scientific* technique (still used by the FBI, something they certainly wouldn't do with a faulty system, simply because they couldn't trust the results if it didn't work) says he couldn't have written?

(And for those who want to say I'm just making this up are more than welcome to click on the two links below for more info.)
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Old 07-17-2008, 01:12 AM
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Because of the unsolicited, burning witnesses of truth from the Holy Ghost.

If he had been a false prophet, then some of the specifics in The Book of Mormon could have, therefore, been untrue, but not necessarily all of them.
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