Mormons: Why did the Salt Lake City sect break away from the Main branch of Mormonism
You know, the one that Joseph Smith's son continued in Missouri, and the one that Joseph Smith's wife confirmed was the real one and stayed with them instead of going to Salt Lake? Do the Mormons in the Main branch consider Brigham Young a heretic? And do the Mormons in the Brighamite Salt Lake sect consider Joseph Smith's wife and son to be heretics??? (I'm talking about Joseph Smith's first and "main" wife, not one of the many other wives he had or any of the children he had through them.)
Which is the "One True Church"??? Seems if Joseph Smith was a true prophet, it's unlikely his wife and kids would start a heresy - I would think they are the "true" church.
Rusty, all my facts are accurate.
So what I'm understanding from all the answers here is that Joseph Smith's wife was a heretic who apostatized after his death by going with the non-true sect....why won't any of you say that Joseph Smith's wife was Apostate?
Oh, I see, so Emma (JS's wife) AND his sons who stayed in Missouri all apostatized and remained apostate.
Why are you afraid to say they are apostate?? Doesn't your sect make it clear that anyone who rejects the Salt Lake Brighamite sect is considered to be an "apostate" by your sect? Isn't an Apostate worse than someone who was never Mormon???
You are speaking of the FLDS, or Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (also known as the reformed) or RLDS. I think you may want to double check your facts, you seem a little mixed up.
If Adam and Eve were created by God and talked with him, it would seem unlikely that their son could kill his brother, eh? To me it makes more sense that at the death of the Pres. of the Church, the authority resides in the Quorum of the Twelve and is not passed genetically.
Well the one Josephs wife condoned denounced the book of Mormon to be accepted by Christianity, changed the rule about women having the priesthood because they finally ran out of male direct descendants of Joseph Smith.
If it makes you happy they're apostate.
It seems quite unlikely but they most likely did, would you start a heresy if you were in her position?
There is no problem with someone who was never Mormon, in fact that's a really stupid comment.
Your purpose seems solely to be mud slinging and I'm really not sure what it is that you want to hear from us, nor do I care.
Your argument is pretty weak. The church stayed with the majority of the twelve. And that is the church that thrives today. You know...the one based in Salt Lake. The Apostles were the ones in line. Not the son of Joseph Smith.
Frankie, I'm not too informed about the Mormon church. I know some of there basic biblical beliefs. But when I read stuff like this? what you are posting, I am just amazed, AMAZED how people believe in this church. How anyone who actually reads the bible could actually think Joseph Smith was a prophet.
Uhh..thanks, really cause it leaves me no doubts of what Mormonism is.
Joseph CHOSEN by God?? a polygamist? I HIGHLY doubt it...its just head throbbing...sorry its just not Christian. The men God choose in the past were not perfect, but didn't give excuses for sinning, unlike..
The Re-organized (including Emma) rebelled because they thought leadership of the church should be inherited....they didn't follow Brigham Young to SLC....end of story....
THe Mormons that established Salt Lake weren't the break away part. Emma and her sons formed the RLDS sect when Joseph Smith's son wasn't chosen as prophet and Brigham Young was. Lds people believe that their prophets are chosen by God. I believe that the Mormon group headquartered in Salt Lake to be the ONE true church.
Joseph Smith's son was too young to start any kind of heresy when Joseph was murdered, so he would not have known anything about this. Emma Smith was too overwhelmed with all that had transpired with the Prophet's death, the previous years of hardship and tribulation; she had been persecuted and run out of New York, Ohio, and Missouri. She simply did not want to do it again as a widow this time. She decided to remain in Illinois. It was her decision. It was her freedom to so choose.
Brigham Young acted according to what the Prophet Joseph asked him to do. Prior to the Prophet Joseph's death, he passed on the the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles all of the priesthood keys and authority to act as prophets, seers and revelatory. That authority continues today.
The authority the you propose that was held by Joseph Smith III comes from an erroneous and oft misquoted belief that Joseph Smith felt the presidency of the church should be passed down from father to son. If that is the case, the authority of that church (who I will not choose to name here) is now dead. They ran out of sons. So, if that authority is now no longer given from father to son, but to someone else, that sounds like exactly what already happened back in 1844.
The church you speak of, is actually not the "main Mormon" church. I believe you are speaking of The Community of Christ - formerly Reorganized LDS church.
His children were very young when he died. They would have had to rely on the limited memories they had on him and what others told them. It is hard to rely on a child's memory of his father's plan for a church, when the oldest was 11 at the time of the death. I am sure they thought they were doing the right thing.
Emma Smith was a great lady who suffered a lot in her lifetime. It is not surprising to me that she did not want to come West with the rest of the group. She had lost several children and been chased from place to place. Nauvoo was her first real home in many years. I think she was just tired. She no longer had Joseph as her support. She stayed in Nauvoo to raise her children. Also her and Brigham Young did not get along. I truly believe that she was doing what she believed to be right for her Family. Emma did not start the reorganized Church- it is was my understanding that William Smith (Joseph's brother) and Sidney Rigdon were the ones who led it for many years and prepared Joseph 3rd to run it. Neither William Smith nor Sidney Rigdon were reliable sources. Both were always stirring up trouble, Sidney Rigdon was just trying to be in power, he denounced Joseph as the prophet, long before the Prophet's Death.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the Original church set up by Joseph Smith Jr.
No most members of the LDS church do not consider Emma and her children to be heretics. The children were really too young to know any better and Emma went through a lot. You really can't blame her for wanting to stay in Nauvoo when he died. The situation was very tough on her.
Your argument is very week.
Edit**
Your facts are very lacking- if you had them straight, you would know that Emma and her Children did not live in Missouri at the time of Joseph's death. It would have been a death sentence for them to live in Missouri at that time. Check you facts.
EXCUSE ME! You have your facts backwards! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints moved to Salt Lake City. This is the "main branch" as you called it. We never broke away from anything.
The RLDS church are the ones that broke away! What makes Emma and her sons immune to being lead away - they are the ones that didn't follow God!
Well, from one MormonMonbsite, I found out that Brigham Young was suppose to have killed one of Joseph brother's, so he wouldn't take over the church, (so Brigham young could) from my mormon history (i am ex-mormon) it went something like this, Emma smith wanted the church's prophets to come thru the Joseph smith family or linage, but the Quaram of 12 believed that God would chose a prophet from among the quarem of the 12, and they said that Brigham young (one night) started to look, w/a glow, like Joseph smith, so that was God's cue as to who the next prophet was suppose to be and not anyone from Joseph smith family. Emma did not agree and if I were her, after all she had suffered so far, I would refuse to make the trek acrossed the plains and stay were I was and ordain my son as the next president of the RLDS, I think they have changed their name though.
Joseph Smith was killed. Bringham Young and the rest of the apostles held all the keys to the Priesthood. The LDS church went to Utah.
Emma Smith stayed behind for 2 reasons. One was to take care of Lucy Mack Smith (Joseph's mother). She was very old and would not have been able to make the trip. Also Emma did not personally like Brigham Young. It was not that she felt he was not called to be the Prophet. She disputed some of the dividing of her husbands property and the churches property with BY (this is of course why the personal feelings of dislike for him).
Now several years before this all happened Joseph Smith gave a fathers blessing to his son and in that blessing told him that if he would remain strong and follow God he was lead the LDS church when it was his time. A fathers blessing is not a prophesy. That is it.
Now because of this blessing several people that had left the LDS church came to Emma a few years after the LDS church had gone west, after Lucy Mack had died and after Emma had remarried and wanted to start the RLDS church. She said no several times but finally gave in. Emma never renounced the LDS church or claimed that her husband was a con man. To the day she died she believed in him and that he was a Prophet of God. She was a good woman who had more tribulations and trials then most of us could even dream of living though. She was just to tired by that point to fight anymore.
The RLDS church did not start as soon as JS was killed it was years later. The LDS church never stopped. That would make the LDS church the main branch and the RLDS the breakoff.
You're gonna get a reaction from modern, main stream Mormons when you accuse them of not being the "main branch" of Mormonism. And, on some level, they're right, in that, despite the controversies of the day, the LDS church that exists now in Utah is the largest and predominant branch of Mormonism now in existence. When someone hears the word Mormon, that's the branch they think of. From a practical stand point, this makes it the "main branch", whatever that means.
What's interesting to look at and consider, is that at the time of the martyrdom of Joseph Smith, it was not so clear as to how succession should take place and who should lead. As usual, Wikipedia has a fairly accurate and balanced entry on the topic:
Smith left ambiguous or contradictory succession instructions that led to arguments and disagreements among the church's members and leadership, several of whom claimed rights to leadership.
An August 8, 1844 conference which established Young's leadership is the source of an oft-repeated legend. Multiple journal and eyewitness accounts from those who followed Young state that when Young spoke regarding the claims of succession by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, he appeared to look or sound like the late Smith. Although many of these accounts were written years after the event, there were contemporary records. Historian D. Michael Quinn wrote:
The Times and Seasons reported that just before the sustaining vote at the afternoon session of the August meeting, "every Saint could see that Elijah's mantle had truly fallen upon the 'Twelve.'" Although the church newspaper did not refer to Young specifically for the "mantle" experience, on 15 November 1844 Henry and Catharine Brooke wrote from Nauvoo that Young "favors Br Joseph, both in person, manner of speaking more than any person ever you saw, looks like another." Five days later Arza Hinckley referred to "Brigham Young on [w]HMO the mantle of the prophet Joseph has fallen."
Most Latter Day Saints followed Young, but some aligned with other various people claiming to be Smith's successor. Some waited for Smith's son, Joseph Smith III, to assume leadership of the church despite his young age at the death of his father. The church had published a revelation in 1841 stating "I say unto my servant Joseph, In thee, and in thy seed, shall the kindred of the earth be blessed", and this was widely interpreted as endorsing the concept of Lineal Succession. Documentary evidence indicates also that Smith set apart his son as his successor at various private meetings and public gatherings, including Liberty and Nauvoo. Indeed, Brigham Young assured the bulk of Smith's followers as late as 1860 that young Joseph would eventually take his father's place. That year, the younger Smith became leader of what was to later be incorporated as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (now called the Community of Christ church) in the Midwest, made up of scattered church members not having journeyed west with Young, including Smith's widow Emma and two of Joseph III's brothers.
In addition, Smith's Vice Presidential running mate Sidney Rigdon formed the Church of Jesus Christ, headquartered in Greensburg, Pennsylvania with a few more congregations scattered throughout the area.
Many of these smaller groups were spread throughout the midwestern United States, especially in Independence, Missouri, and several remain viable as religious groups. Issues relating to the succession crisis are still the subject of discussion and debate.
[End Quote]
Apostasy is always a relative term. One group's apostate is another group's true believer.
One very fascinating side note, that the Wikipedia entry fails to mention is the Strangites. Check the source list for a link to their site.
Mormons: Why did the Salt Lake City sect break away from the Main branch of Mormonism
