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Old 09-09-2009, 08:10 AM
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Default Muslims, Hindus, Toaists, African Religious Groups (Santeria, Candomble, Vodoun, Shan

Please tell me what your religion states in regard to how earth and humans came to be! Or if your religion doesn't state this one way or the other, please explain what your personal beliefs are!

Or if anyone knows a site (which is not biased) that describes each of these beliefs in detail, that would be exceptional too!

Thanks everyone!

(If Christians insist on teaching our children Creationism, then I insist on them being completely informed of ALL primary religious beliefs on the matter. Otherwise, it's not education - It's Church!)

SUPPORT SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!
Hestia, Sorry I missed Hellenic Polytheism. I've honestly never come across it before now. Very thorough explanation. Many thanks!
Joe M ~ Great Muslim explanation! The way your wrote it made it easy to understand. Thanks
Bill W ~ I understand the basic idea of Buddhism, but no where does it mention creation of man or earth? You say "it really doesn't care about these things", which seem to leave room for a but... like, but there is the idea that...
DenebBA Interesting. So Adam is the name of the first man in both Islamic and Christian beliefs?
Question ~ I'm not speaking of Intelligent Design, firstly. I am dealing with Creationism, personally. But, regarding Intelligent Design - No, it should not be taught in science class either. Science class is for teaching facts... not feelings.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:10 AM
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Buddhism doesn't care so much about such questions. The universe is eternal and everything just is. In other words, these questions are kind of a waste of time.

My personal belief? Well, after understanding Buddhist philosophy and thought, I no longer care.
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:10 AM
David L's Avatar
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o
peroration of church and state
(you have been mislead, their is no such thing read your constitution (congress shall have no power....) CONGRESS)
you
Atheist's
are
so
simple!!!
HE
has
RISEN
(do not concern yourself as to where we came from, but that we are here.......)
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Old 09-20-2009, 08:10 AM
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for thousands of years before all those other religions (except the Jewish) the bible told of millions of evil angels that feel to the earth

and the religions you mention have millions of gods who all claim to be a god, and you can worship as many as you like

does any one see the coincidence?


Separation of Church and state Will not happen

that is what the prophecy and Daniel are all about

as the froth beast had 10 heads...

it forms the last portion of tr he statue of Nebuchadnezzar in which the iron feet are standing on a clay base

the intermingling of iron and clay are supposed to be an intermingling of church and state

the mark of the beast will enforce Sunday worship

the verichip will locate your whereabouts to make sure that you go along to it

don't accept it!

stay blessed
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:10 AM
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Although you did not mention Hellenic Polytheists in your title, I'm going to add my two cents worth.

I would really recommend Hesiod's Theogony as a primary text

also,

KHAOS (or Chaos) was the first of the Protogenoi (primeval gods) to emerge at the creation of the universe. She was followed in quick succession by Gaia (Earth), Tartaros (the Underworld) and Eros (Love the life-bringer).

Khaos was the lower atmosphere which surrounded the earth - invisible air and gloomy mist. Her name khans literally means the gap, the space between heaven and earth. Khaos was the mother or grandmother of the other substances of air: Nyx (Night), Erebos (Darkness), Aither (Light) and Hemera (Day), as well as the various emotion-affecting Daimones which drifted through it. She was also a goddess of fate like her daughter Nyx and grand-daughters the Moirai.

Later authors defined Khaos as the chaotic mix of elements that existed in the primeval universe, confusing it with the primeval Mud of the Orphic cosmogonies, but this was not the original meaning.

PARENTS
[1.1] NONE (the first being to emerge at creation) (Hesiod Theogony 116)
[2.1] KHRONOS & ANANKE (Orphic Argonautica 12, Orphic Fragment 54)
[2.2] KHRONOS (Orphic Rhapsodies 66)
OFFSPRING
[1.1] EREBOS, NYX (without a mate) (Hesiod Theogony 124)
[1.2] EREBOS, NYX, AITHER, HEMERA (Hyginus Preface)
[2.1] THE MOIRAI (Quintus Smyrnaeus 3.755)
[3.1] EROS (Oppian Halieutica 4.10)
[4.1] THE BIRDS (by Eros) (Aristophanes Birds 685)

NB According to Hesiod's Theogony Gaia, Tartaros and Eros came into being after Khaos. This passage is sometimes misread, making them her offspring.

ENCYCLOPEDIA
CHAOS (Chaos), the vacant and infinite space which existed according to the ancient cosmogonies previous to the creation of the world (Hes. Theog. 116), and out of which the gods, men, and all things arose. A different definition of Chaos is given by Ovid (Met. i. 1, &c.), who describes it as the confused mass containing the elements of all things that were formed out of it. According to Hesiod, Chaos was the mother of Erebos and Nyx. Some of the later poets use the word Chaos in the general sense of the airy realms, of darkness, or the lower world.

Source: Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology.



KHAOS & THE BIRTH OF THE COSMOS
"Verily at the first Khaos came to be, but next wide-bosomed Gaia (Earth), the ever-sure foundations of all the deathless ones who hold the peaks of snowy Olympus ... From Khaos came forth Erebos and black Nyx (Night)." - Hesiod, Theogony 116

"He (Alkman) has identified Poros with the god called Khaos by Hesiod." - Greek Lyric II Alcman Frag 1 (from Scholiast on Aristophanes the Birds 14)

"Aisa (Fate) and Poros (the Contriver), those ancient ones, conquered them all (ie they were killed in battle)." - Greek Lyric II Alcman Frag 1

"When the bevy of Mousai met the shepherd Hesiod ... they told him of the birth of Khaos." - Callimachus, Aetia Frag 2

"At the beginning there was only Khaos (Air), Nyx (Night), dark Erebos (Darkness), and deep Tartaros (Hell's Pit). Ge (Earth), Aer (Air) and Ouranos (Heaven) had no existence. Firstly, black-winged Nyx (Night) laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebos (Darkness), and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros (Desire) with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated [or fertilised] in deep Tartaros (Hell-Pit) with dark Khaos (Air), winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race [the birds], which was the first to see the light." - Aristophanes, Birds 685

"This Khronos (Unaging Time), of immortal resource, begot Aither (Light) and great Khaos (Chasm or Air), vast this way and that, no limit below it, no base, no place to settle." - Orphic Rhapsodies 66 (fragments)

"United with it [Khronos time] was Ananke (Inevitability, Compulsion), being of the same nature, or Adrastea, incorporeal ... this is the great Khronos (Unaging Time) that we found in it [the Rhapsodies], the father of Aither and Khaos. Indeed, in this theology too [the Hieronyman], this Khronos (Time), the serpent has offspring, three in number: moist Aither (Light) (I quote), unbounded Khaos (Air), and as a third, misty Erebos (Darkness) ? Among these, he says, Khronos (Time) generated an egg [containing all solid matter - earth sea and sky]." - Orphic Fragment 54 (from Damascius)

"And he [Epicurus] says that the world began in the likeness of an egg, and the Wind [the entwined forms of Khronos (Time) and Ananke (Inevitability)?] encircling the egg serpent-fashion like a wreath or a belt then began to constrict nature. As it tried to squeeze all the matter with greater force, it divided the world into the two hemispheres, and after that the atoms sorted themselves out, the lighter and finer ones in the universe floating above and becoming the Bright Air [Aither or Ouranos] and the most rarefied Wind [Khaos the Air?], while the heaviest and dirtiest have veered down, become the Earth (Ge), both the dry land and the fluid waters [Pontos the Sea?]." - Epicuras, Fragment (from Epiphanius)

"The Moirai (Fates), daughters of holy Khaeos." - Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 3.755

"From Caligine (Mist) [was born] Chaos; from Chaos [was born]: Nox (Night), Dies (Day) [Hemera], Erebus, Aether." - Hyginus, Preface

"Among these [the nymphs] Clymene ... from Chaos on was rehearsing the countless loves of the gods." - Virgil, Georgics 4.345

"Thou [Eros] art the eldest-born among the blessed gods and from unsmiling Khaeos didst arise with fierce and flaming torch and didst first establish the ordinances of wedded love and order the rites of the marriage-bed." - Oppian, Halieutica 4.10


--------------------------------------...

KHAOS THE LOWER AIR
Khaos was the earth-bound lower air. Its heavenly counterpart was the shining aither, and beneath the earth there were the dark mists of erebos.

"[War of the Titanes] [Zeus] came forthwith, hurling his lightning ... flame unspeakable rose to the bright upper air: the flashing glare of the thunder- stone and lightning blinded their eyes for all that there were strong. Astounding heat seized Khaos (Air): and to see with eyes and to hear the sound with ears it seemed even as if Gaia (Earth) and wide Ouranos (Heaven) above came together." - Hesiod, Theogony 699

"And beyond, away from all the gods, live the Titanes, beyond gloomy Khaos (Air)." - Hesiod, Theogony 813

"He uses khaos (void) instead of aeros (air) here, as does Ibycus:' he flies in the alien void (khaos)." - Greek Lyric III Ibycus, Frag S223B (from Scholast on Aristophanes, Birds)

"In the limitless void (khaos) he [the eagle] plies his fine-feathered plumage before the blasts of the west wind." - Greek Lyric IV Bacchylides, Frag 5

"[Comedy-Play:] Sokrates: Give heed to the prayers. (In an hierophantic tone) Oh! most mighty king, the boundless Aer (Air), that keepest the earth suspended in space [Aristophanes calls air both Aer and Khaos], thou bright Aither (Upper Air) and ye venerable goddesses, the Nephelai (Clouds)." - Aristophanes, Clouds 264

"[Comedy-play:] By Anapnoe (Respiration), by Khaos (Void), by Aer (Air) [three names for the same divinity]." - Aristophanes, Clouds 627

"[Eos the Dawn grieving her son Memnon says she will no longer rise:] 'I will to blind night leave earth, sky, and sea, till Khaeos and formless darkness brood o'er all." - Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 2.549

"Then rose from Okeanos Eos (Dawn) the golden-throned up to the heavens; Nyx (Night) into Khaos sank." - Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 14.1

"Orion fell by the cruel virgin?s [Artemis?] shaft and now fills Chaos [the Air, which Orion fills as a constellation]." - Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica 4.104

"Mysterious is the cause, yet of old has this honour [of prophetic omen] been paid to the birds, whether the Founder of the heavenly bode thus ordained, when he wrought the vast expanse of Chaos into the fresh seeds of things." - Statius, Thebaid 3.483

"Before all Khthon (Earth) [Gaia], milling out from Helios the shine of his newmade brightness upon her all-mothering breast ... Beroe first shook away the cone of darkling mist, and threw off the gloomy veil of Khaos (Air)." - Nonnus, Dionysiaca 41.82

"Khaos (Space): Also the air (aer), according to Aristophanes in the Birds: 'You shall not grant passage to the smell of the (burning sacificial) thighs through your foreign city and the space (khaos).' Also 'even Zeus is older than Khaos', in the very ancient writers. And Ibykos (writes): 'he flies about in someone else's space (khaos).' And again: 'He fools around and spouts nonsense at us in vain, that even Zeus lived earlier than khaos." - Suidas "Khaos"


--------------------------------------...

KHAOS THE GLOOM OF THE NETHERWORLD
Khaos was sometimes equated with Erebos, the darkness of the underworld.

"[Orpheus peititions the gods of the underworld to return his Eurydike:] By these regions [the Underworld] filled with fear, by this huge Chaos, these vast silent realms, reweave, I implore, the fate unwound too fast of my Eurydice." - Ovid, Metamorphoses 10.30

"She [the witch Kirke] ... out of Erebos (Darkness) and Chaos (Gloomy Air) called Nox (Night) and the Di Nocti (Gods of Night) and poured a prayer with long-drawn wailing cries to Hecate." - Ovid, Metamorphoses 10.403

"Let the heavens hear his mighty groans, let the queen of the dark world [Persephone] hear ... let Chaos re-echo the outcries of his grief." - Seneca, Hercules Furens 1100

"Thou chaos of endless night [i.e. the underworld], ye realms remote from heaven, ye unhallowed ghosts, thou lord [Haides] of the realm of gloom." - Seneca, Medea 9

"Funereal gods, murky Chaos and shadowy Dis? [Haides'] dark dwelling-place, the abysses of dismal Mors [Thanatos, death], girt by the banks of Tartarus." - Seneca, Medea 740

[The seer Teiresias performs necromancy:] The whole place was shaken and the ground was stricken from below ... blind Chaos is burst open, and for the tribes of Dis [Haides] a way is given to the upper world." - Seneca, Oedipus 570

"Yawn, earth; take me, dire Chaos, take me; this way to the shades is more fitting for me ? my son I follow." - Seneca, Phaedra 1238


--------------------------------------...

KHAOS THE PRIMEVAL MIXTURE OF ELEMENTS
Khaos was later identified with that primeval mixture of elements - earth, sea, sky - which is described in the Orphic Theogonies as primeval "Mud".

"Ere land and sea and the all-covering sky were made, in the whole world the countenance of nature was the same, all one, well named Chaos, a raw and undivided mass, naught but a lifeless bulk, with warring seeds of ill-joined elements compressed together. No Titan [Helios the Sun] as yet poured light upon the world, no waxing Phoebe [Selene the Moon] her crescent filled anew, nor in the ambient air yet hung the earth, self-balanced, equipoised, nor Amphitrite?s [the Sea?s] arms embraced the long far margin of the land. Though there were land and sea and air, the land no foot could tread, no creature swim the sea, the air was lightless; nothing kept its form, all objects were at odds, since in one mass cold essence fought with hot, and moist with dry, and hard with soft and light with things of weight. This strife a Deus (God) [Phanes or Thesis?], with nature?s blessing, solved; who severed land from sky and sea from land, and from the denser vapours set apart the ethereal sky; and, each from the blind heap resolved and freed, he fastened in its place appropriate in peace and harmony. The fiery weightless force of heaven?s vault flashed up and claimed the topmost citadel; next came the air in lightness and in place; the thicker earth with grosser elements sank burdened by its weight; lowest and last the girdling waters pent the solid globe. So into shape whatever god it was reduced the primal matter and prescribed its several parts. Then first, to make the earth even on every side, he rounded it into a mighty disc, then bade the sea extend and rise under the rushing winds, and gird the shores of the encircled earth." - Ovid, Metamorphoses 1.1



--------------------------------------...

Sources:

Hesiod, Theogony - Greek Epic C8th-7th BC
Greek Lyric II Alcman, Fragments - Greek Lyric C7th BC
Greek Lyric IV Bacchylides, Fragments - Greek Lyric C5th BC
Aristophanes, Birds - Greek Comedy C5th-4th BC
Aristophanes, Clouds - Greek Comedy C5th-4th BC
Orphica, Fragments - Greek Hymns BC
Callimachus, Hymns - Greek C3rd BC
Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy - Greek Epic C4th AD
Hyginus, Fabulae - Latin Mythography C2nd AD
Ovid, Metamorphoses - Latin Epic C1st BC - C1st AD
Ovid, Fasti - Latin Epic C1st BC - C1st AD
Virgil, Georgics - Latin Idyllic C1st BC
Seneca, Hercules Furens - Latin Tragedy C1st AD
Seneca, Oedipus - Latin Tragedy C1st AD
Seneca, Phaedra - Latin Tragedy C1st AD
Valerius Flaccus, The Argonautica - Latin Epic C1st AD
Statius, Thebaid - Latin Epic C1st AD
Oppian, Cynegetica - Greek Poetry C3rd AD
Nonnos, Dionysiaca - Greek Epic C5th AD
Suidas - Byzantine Lexicographer C10th AD
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:10 AM
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Muslim point of view

In Islam, the world as man knows it, begins and ends with Allah. Unlike Christianity and Judaism, the creation process is not described in detail, but referred to as a starting point for Allah?s power. The creation story in Islam is described in the Qur?an as the creation of the universe by Allah?s will with a single command: ?Be!? Several verses in the Qur?an highlight Allah?s power of creation: [Creator of the heavens and the earth from nothingness, He has only to say when He wills a thing: ?Be,? and it is] (Al-Baqarah 2:117) and, [That is how God creates what He wills, when He decrees a thing, He says ?Be,? and it is] (Aal `Imran 3:47).

Man?s relationship with nature materializes in Islamic living in several ways, the most significant and obvious being death

In this manner, Allah created the heavens and the earth, the sun and the moon, and the rest of the universe. He created the plants and the animals, and placed them on Earth, and He decreed upon them the laws by which the natural order of all creation functions. The universe is an independent entity, it exists according to those laws and does not require (divine) intervention, yet it cannot ?warrant for its own existence and it cannot explain itself? (Rahman). In Islam, this in itself is considered conclusive proof of Allah?s existence. The laws placed by Allah take into account all natural phenomena and provide further proof for Allah?s greatness, which the Qur?an describes in detail. [He ushers in the dawn, and made the night for rest, the sun and moon a computation. Such is the measure appointed by Him, the Omnipotent and All-Wise] (Al-An`am 6:96). Natural law, as decreed by Allah, ?reflects and issues from the order that exists in the Divine Realm? (Nasr) where Allah exists.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:10 AM
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in Islam, Adam was created out of mu dd or from the earth by Allah. Allah has created all things that exist within the heavens and earths.
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:10 AM
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Most Christians I know don't want biblical creationism taught in science classes. What we want is for molecules-to-man evolution to be taught with all its warts (they are not even allowed to present evidence that would put evolution in a poor light). And we want intelligent design to at least to be presented. Unlike leprechauns and unicorns, etc., a significant percentage of the population believes in ID.

So many people these days are confusing biblical creationism with intelligent design. "Intelligent Design is the study of patterns in nature that are best explained as the result of intelligence" (Dr. William Dembski). That's it; it says nothing of who the creator is and how he/she/it/they did it. Intelligent Design encompasses every "creation" story, even aliens seeding life on this planet.

What about teaching it in school? I'm sorry, but I have to agree with George Bush: "Both sides ought to be properly taught . . . so people can understand what the debate is about . . . Part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought . . . You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes.?

Good science teaching should include controversies. Do you not agree?

And for those who put so much faith in peer-review, check this out: http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=2640&program=CSC%20-%20Scientific%20Research%20and%20Scholarship%20-%20Science

They can learn about all those different beliefs in a comparative religion class. ID on the other hand is scientific.

Reliable methods for detecting design exist and are employed in forensics, archeology, and data fraud analysis. These methods can easily be employed to detect design in biological systems.

When being interviewed by Tavis Smiley, Dr. Stephen Meyer said, ?There are developments in some technical fields, complexity and information sciences, that actually enable us to distinguish the results of intelligence as a cause from natural processes. When we run those modes of analysis on the information in DNA, they kick out the answer, ?Yeah, this was intelligently designed? . . . There is actually a science of design detection and when you analyze life through the filters of that science, it shows that life was intelligently designed.?
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